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Andrew Reid

Canon Cinema 1D 4K DSLR officially announced

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Pff, these prices are outrageous! 15k Cinema 1D, and 25k C500?!
The ~16k Red Scarlet-X package is still a better value if you want 4:2:2 + 4k, and it has 16-bit RAW Processing too versus the 8bit MJPEG.
I think Canon has dropped the ball in almost all stages, the MKIII is disappointing for me, and I dont think that the t4i will bring anything new in the lower class.
Sad.

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs
You summed it up great.
"We don’t want 4K we just want decent 1080p at a reasonable price on a full frame camera! "

But after watching Canon lately that is not going to happen.
So one day 1Dx or 5DIII with Magic Lantern will be just that.
May be Magic Lantern guys should sell their hacks if that means faster "development"  ;)

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[quote author=tobyloc link=topic=572.msg3809#msg3809 date=1334242816]
[quote author=Andrew Reid - EOSHD link=topic=572.msg3801#msg3801 date=1334241347]
[quote author=tobyloc link=topic=572.msg3792#msg3792 date=1334240517]
There's one more BIG 'ugly' if you happen to live on a certain continent called Europe and do anything that might be broadcast - no 25P in 4k, only in 1080P. Unless they change their specs or update it in firmware. It's not even an oversight, it's a complete lack of understanding or who would buy and use this camea. Sony have my money for the forseable future.
[/quote]

I think the press release is worded for the American market. This can't be true about 25p. Canon have always released world-cams which are PAL / NTSC.
[/quote]

It should at least be fixable, just one more frame a second, but really, a european press release to film makers for a 4k camera that can't be used by them - is beyond ridiculous.
[/quote]

Confirmed, it is 25p only in 1080p. You're right and I think ridiculous does describe it pretty well.

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Thank you for updating the post, many important details were unclear.

I really was a fervent supporter of Canon, even with the 5dmkiii, i hate people judging spec list....but this is going too far this time.

No matter how hard i look, the 1D-C just seems to be an unlocked 1DX, i mean they couldn't even get the 16/9 display on this thing?!?! This is supposed to be aimed at Cinema Professionals ?

In the current market, how on earth any industry pro would pickup such a 15K$ DSLR, with all the compromises and missing pro features ,  over a fully specialized Video Camera with specific strong points like the FS700, Scarlett, or C300 ? (form factor maybe...that's an expensive luxury then)

As someone mentioned before, for this price you could get a FS700 and a 5Dmkiii, and some lenses...

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This is funny.  It's like these companies just aimed to destroy all that is RED and the Evil Jannard Empire, lol.  I just bought a GH2 and in September, that will be outdated.  Vitaliy Kiselev was announced to be working with Panasonic on an official basis now, so i imagine the days of "free and awesome" hacks and patches will be against the law now that they brought him on board.  However, everything is 4k and 8,000$ + now.  Still can't afford anything, and that's what i think sucks for all of us.  They've priced these "innovative cameras" way out of everybody's reach still.  Believe it or not, there are extraordinarily talented cinematographers and storytellers out there that have day jobs, families and bills...that can't neccessarily call a rental house at the drop of a hat when they have an opening in their spontaneous schedule of free time to say, "hey! The kids are at their grandmothers! Can i swing by and rent a _______? ...none available?.....sh-t.".
    Suffice it to say, Andrew has pretty much enlightened us all to the crown jewels we already have available like the GH2 and the FS100.  I watched Act of Valor the other day.  A sh-tload of 2008 Mark 2's made that and i didn't see anything on the 40+ wide screen that made me say "Holy Mother of God! Did you see the Aliasing on that guys hair! I want my damn money back!". 
    I forsee the little "in the crevice" companies coming through like the Kineraw series coming out, the digital Bolex maybe, and Panasonic thinking about the rest of us......hopefully on the latter.

Update:

Before anyone starts calling me names, i went to post the link on the Vitaliy thing.  Apparently it was an April Fools joke posted before April Fools.  My bad.

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So Canon thinks it's better to release things "no one" could afford with stupid things missing (like articulating screen) instead of a great $800 650D wtih GH2-like 1080p that will [b]destroy [/b] every single product from competitors and sell millions?

I'll never understand how economy works ;D

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[quote author=sandro link=topic=572.msg3825#msg3825 date=1334248824]
So Canon thinks it's better to release things "no one" could afford with stupid things missing (like articulating screen) instead of a great $800 650D wtih GH2-like 1080p that will [b]destroy [/b] every single product from competitors and sell millions?

I'll never understand how economy works ;D
[/quote]

Companies that try to protect their higher end products will eventually loose out as someone will pickup that low-end market space.  It is beginning to look like Sony and/or Panasonic could start doing that this year.  It'll be interesting to see how video is supported with the GH3 and NEX5 replacement while Panasonic and Sony expand their pro video lines.  Or will they dumb down the video in their traditional cameras.

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[quote author=sandro link=topic=572.msg3825#msg3825 date=1334248824]
So Canon thinks it's better to release things "no one" could afford with stupid things missing (like articulating screen) instead of a great $800 650D wtih GH2-like 1080p that will [b]destroy [/b] every single product from competitors and sell millions?

I'll never understand how economy works ;D
[/quote]

Amen.  Why the hell nobody has listened to us after all these years is unbelievable.  Give us a flat, uncompressed image at 1080 with none of the artifacts, a decent sensor that won't sh-t its pants in a shadow, good bitrate, swivel screen, 4:2:2, blah blah.  We all know the list.  Something like, an Alexa that fits in the palm of your hand for 3 or 4,000$.  Lmao.

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[quote author=hoodlum link=topic=572.msg3826#msg3826 date=1334249261]
[quote author=sandro link=topic=572.msg3825#msg3825 date=1334248824]
So Canon thinks it's better to release things "no one" could afford with stupid things missing (like articulating screen) instead of a great $800 650D wtih GH2-like 1080p that will [b]destroy [/b] every single product from competitors and sell millions?

I'll never understand how economy works ;D
[/quote]

Companies that try to protect their higher end products will eventually loose out as someone will pickup that low-end market space.  It is beginning to look like Sony and/or Panasonic could start doing that this year.  It'll be interesting to see how video is supported with the GH3 and NEX5 replacement while Panasonic and Sony expand their pro video lines.  Or will they dumb down the video in their traditional cameras.
[/quote]

Check out 43 rumors.com
There's the new Avchd ultra coming out.  It looks to be a codec orgasm...  I bet the GH3 will be awesome.  In fact, i bet it checks off almost everything on the 1080 wishlist, and it does it within a realistic price range that someone can attain.

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Codec orgasm. Haha

[quote author=sandro link=topic=572.msg3830#msg3830 date=1334250699]
I don't think Sony will do it because they're like Canon with high end cameras to protect.
The only hope is Panasonic and Nikon. Too bad Panasonic is stuck with 4/3:(
[/quote]

Sony are doing it, they put it in an official statement today. Here comes the business speak

"Sony is also drawing on its comprehensive strengths in audio and visual technologies to aggressively promote the growth of "4K" technology, which delivers more than four times the resolution of Full HD. Incorporation of Sony-developed technologies, such as image sensors, image processing compression LSIs and high-speed optical transmission modules into its professional-use and [b]high-end consumer products[/b] will pave the way for Sony to continue to expand and enrich its 4K-compatible product lineup."

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@JayBirch The 5DMkIII addressed some of the things people wanted and included a few great unexpected bonuses, but it did not really live up to the expectations in several key areas. Note, I am only discussing the video side here.

People expected an improved downscaling algorithm that would be noticeably better than the older GH2, along with clearer video (without post) to go along with it. They also expected an improved ability to shoot continuously.

What they received was a downscaling algorithm that was not noticeably superior to the GH2 and an approach to dealing with moire that did not result in the clarity increase many people expected and required post to get the most out of it. They did increase the ability to shoot continuously in a way that was consistent with the expectation most people in the E.U. would have (but that somewhat frustrated some cinematographers outside it).

The improved high ISO performance was an unexpected bonus, as were the audio controls. The codec options also looked much better on paper than many people expected, but the i-frame codec results were much worse than many people expected from the specs.

All in all, I could equally understand people being very happy about or very frustrated by the 5DMkIII if it were viewed on its own. The reason many people are frustrated is not because of how the 5DMkIII relates to the 5DMkII but rather how it relates to all the competing products, including those at lower price-points, and especially the way it relates to its most direct competitor, the D800.

At the moment, the high ISO performance is quite attractive but it may not be as much of a "sure thing" upgrade for otehr 5DMkII owners. At least those are my perceptions. What is your read on it?

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I think eventually we'll see proper 1080p trickle down to the masses in the form of a Canon 70D over the next couple of years and at the right price- hopefully without the need for a AA filter teardown. In the meantime I'm enjoying shooting the GH2 and a 5DMKII. If your output is web based or even SD broadcast, then these are still the only cameras that remain true to the spirit of small, light and stealthy with a unique look - and for the right price.
I had read a lot about the GH2 before purchase, but it wasn't until I started shooting with it that I realised how good it really is - even without the hack.

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4K - for whom? Anyone interested in checking out 5DMKII footage that's aired weekly by one of the world's largest public broadcasters -
http://zoom.zdf.de/ZDFde/inhalt/9/0,1872,8235273,00.html?dr=1
It's worth noting that not every broadcaster needs to meet BBC HD standards, especially if some broadcasters are still transmitting in standard definition. IMHO, these programs look fantastic. The question then is- who is 4K for? Cinema release?

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