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Panasonic jumping into the world of 4K at NAB 2012?


Andrew Reid
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[img]http://www.eoshd.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/panasonic-avc-ultra-meeting.jpg[/img]

Kunihiko Miyagi, Director of Pro Video at Panasonic in the factory in Kadoma, Osaka has given a glimpse of what Panasonic have in store for NAB later this week. To quote verbatim from his blog:

[list]
[*]A new visual world created by the new AVC Ultra platform
[*]Panasonic jumping in to the world of ________
[*]Further evolution in P2 cards!
[*]What the next generation of cameras will look like

[url="http://www.eoshd.com/?p=7793/"]Read full article[/url]

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EOSHD Pro Color 5 for Sony cameras EOSHD Z LOG for Nikon CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs
I think there will be two 4/3rd cameras.... AF200 (1080p, P2, AVC Ultra, 10bit, 4:2:2 $8k) and AF500 (4K, P2, AVC Ultra, 12bit, 4:4:4, $16k) and possibly a 1/4" or 1/2" camera for broadcast.

AVC Ultra will be immense. No more external recorders and P2 is not as crazy expensive as a few years ago. Anyone here who hasn't used P2 are in for a treat... Such a great, reliable system.
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Very cool. I'm looking forward. It doesn't sound too much like a fairytale any more that we might see affordable 422 10bit. Surely 1080 50/60p. GH2 1/2  with P2-cards? I guess not (but who knows?). But this is very exciting.

History repeats itself. Sony brought us HD as HDV. Panasonic (with their very successful DVX for SD in the background) announced the HVX200 with better codec and so on. People waited (and waited and waited), and suddenly the Canon XHA1 appeared, a cheaper compromise. The HVX turned out to have it's problems (pixelshift, shitty display, very expensive cards), as the AF100 has today (bettered in resolution not only by the Sony pendant FS100 but by Pans own ridiculous consumer-toy GH2). This strife is only good for us.
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[quote author=jaybirch link=topic=548.msg3595#msg3595 date=1333976971]
Hopefully 128GB and 256GB P2 cards at reasonable prices too. ($900 and $1600?)
[/quote]

That doesn't sound so reasonable to me.  You can buy a 240GB Intel 520 series SSD (just released, 6Gb/s performance) for about $300. 
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Have you guys actually used P2? It is faultless (from my experience, at least)... I never dropped a frame.

It is so easy to suggest some cheap, high spec SSD that has been built for laptop use. I'm talking about paid film work here where losing a frame could cost me ALOT.

Duel P2 is safe, reliable. That is worth the money. If you want to go a different route, get an external recorder and try the cheap SSDs.... You might be very happy, you might be crying into your beer at the end of an expensive shoot, gone wrong.

Propriety hardware might seem like a rip off, but it is built for a reason. Reliability.... Whether you think reliability is worth 4x the price is your choice as a film maker.
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[quote author=jaybirch link=topic=548.msg3600#msg3600 date=1333981325]
Propriety hardware might seem like a rip off, but it is built for a reason. Reliability....
[/quote]

Jay, I've never used P2, no.  But in terms of solid state memory reliability I would rather trust a specialist manufacturer like SanDisk, Lexar or Intel than a generalist such as Panasonic.  In my experience solid state devices from the Japanese giants are more expensive and slower than the equivalent from the specialists.  Can't speak for reliability, I haven't had a single solid state memory card or SSD fail from any manufacturer (touches wood).  Anyway, don't want to argue with you, thanks for the input and happy shooting!

[Edit]Plus I am philosophically against proprietary formats.  But you've probably guessed that already.
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TC, keep on writing.  I'm the biggest fool so you'd have to do alot more to catch me.

You gotta love competition. 

Sony FS700 shipping in JUNE
Sony PMW100: 422 color at 50Mbps shipping in MAY
JVC 4k fixed lens shipping NOW (BH Photo)
JVC 4k interchangeable lens when released???
Panasonic 4k model(s) shipping???
Canon 4k model(s) shipping???
Kineraw 2k - supposedly main land China in May release with world world release later this year.
Nikon 1080p now.

Canon had such an opportunity with the 5D3 to secure the market and affect the competition's sales.  They could have buried some of the competition.  If the 5D3 could have been more detailed, better codec, etc., people would have been satisfied.  Talked with a major seller, who mentioned how their camcorder sales were dead when the 5D2 was at its height of popularity.  Maybe Canon will surprise people at NAB?  With so much competition now on the horizon and people looking to spend money to upgrade to the next level, the camera maker delivering a product in a timely manner to the market is important.  Sure Canon can announce a top notch camera, but price and availability will be critical factors.  I hope Panasonic announces an excellent camera that will raise our eyebrows to the back of our heads - and hopefully a quick release date too.  Alot of answers coming later this week and early next week.
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Panasonic and Sony will be pushing 4k very soon at the consumer level.  I don't see either Canon or Nikon doing this as they will try to reserve 4k for their higher margin high-end professional lines.

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20120409-702538.html

"Last week, Hirai spoke briefly ahead of a preview of Sony's presentation for its professional products division and pledged to spread cutting-edge technologies from its professional products to more mass-market products. One example presented by Hirai was Sony's 4K technology, a display and imaging breakthrough for presenting moving images four times sharper than existing high-definition video. "
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[quote author=TC link=topic=548.msg3603#msg3603 date=1333982418]
Jay, I've never used P2, no.  But in terms of solid state memory reliability I would rather trust a specialist manufacturer like SanDisk, Lexar or Intel than a generalist such as Panasonic.
[/quote]

From my understanding, the P2 is, in essence, an array of the highest quality SD cards (4 cards, if I remember rightly). It is very unlikely that Panasonic produced the SD cards, probably SanDisk or Lexar. It is top end stuff, just like a RED SDD or Sony's latest media.

Perhaps there will be an option to record the AVC-LongG (10 bit, 4:2:2 long gop) codec to SD or CF though.... With P2 as an option for highest quality work. You will be paying more to have the P2 infrastructure.... But your camera has a built in upgrade path.

Best of both worlds  :)
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I wondering if Panasonic is going release an industry standard 1.5-ish crop? Hate to say this, but if Panasonic sticks with the Micro 4/3rd 2x crop, it will never be used on high profile, marquee type projects no matter how high the resolution. The aesthetic is noticeably different, at least to Pros.

Can they make Micro 4/3rd at least a 1.6x crop? Is that even possible?
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[quote author=jaybirch link=topic=548.msg3613#msg3613 date=1333990839]From my understanding, the P2 is, in essence, an array of the highest quality SD cards (4 cards, if I remember rightly).[/quote]

In 10/2010 they had this test with a prototype of the AF100 with a P2 recorder via HD-SDI:
http://vimeo.com/15765280
They recorded *as* AVC-Intra, which is 10-bit 4:2:2 @ 100 mbps. Everybody raved, fantastic, awesome!

Only later did they compare the AVCHD-version from the SDHC-card, 24 mbit VBR, we know it. There was almost no difference (seems the HDI-SDI-output was simply not 10-bit 4:2:2).

Last year I visited a trade show, and there was a stand from Panasonic with the Af100. The two guys showed me the camera. One said, you can even record in 10-bit 4:2:2 with an P2 cards!

I like being lied to, but only if I know better. If I fell for this one ...

I would opt for the alternative.
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[quote author=gene_can_sing link=topic=548.msg3619#msg3619 date=1333994811]
I wondering if Panasonic is going release an industry standard 1.5-ish crop? Hate to say this, but if Panasonic sticks with the Micro 4/3rd 2x crop, it will never be used on high profile, marquee type projects no matter how high the resolution. The aesthetic is noticeably different, at least to Pros.

Can they make Micro 4/3rd at least a 1.6x crop? Is that even possible?
[/quote]

You could say the same about FF vs 1.5 crop.  Actually the difference between m43 (1.85 crop in video) vs 1.5 crop is small compared to the drop from FF.  Lens selection will have a greater impact.
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