Canon EOS R5 / R6 overheating discussion all in one place

[Andrew Reid]

https://www.eoshd.com/news/the-real-world-4k-hq-overheating-limit-is-2-minutes-on-the-canon-eos-r5-say-dpreview/

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

20 hours ago, Super8 said:

The stolen data is more than a smoking gun email about the R5 overheating.   What a bunch of loser hackers that do this.  Don't worry they always get caught.

In this case, not. Looks like that they were targeted by Maze, a ransomware group, that already hacked LG and Xerox. Garmin was targeted by another group these days and reportedely paid some millions to recover their data. It's a professional job.

[Punio]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2YDycrYZg8

Another test with the Ninja V but this time with the battery still in, no dummy battery. Lasted 1hr 30. So NoLife's video looks like it wasn't an isolated result. While this is encouraging in terms of being a usable camera, a £600 workaround or however much a Ninja V costs is a bit shocking.

Although, with the price of CFExpress cards, a Ninja V might be a bit of a money saver?

[independent]

Not to mention the transcoding time or computer costs of working with the h265 footage. Not a minor issue. Ninja and video assist provide edit-friendly codecs. 

[wolf33d]

Clearly all of this smells BS from Canon with software limit. 

- Camera is cold to the touch and colder than A7SIII after overheating (as measured with a thermometer gun).
- You can't shoot HQ video after browsing menus and shooting a few stills. 
- Removing the memory card when external recording allows for hours of recording. Put that memory card in the body, and it's 45 min even though the card is inactive. 
- Overheating time is basically the same inside a house with AC and outside under the sun with high temps (unlike the A7S III and any other camera in the world).

You don't have to be an engineer (which I am) to see what Canon did right there. 

I hope they fix their mess. This camera will never be perfect (you can always expect overheating with 8K and 4K120p without active or good passive cooling) for people who need very long continuous recording. But it can be perfect for the majority of us who need a do it all hybrid, and have the ability to take several short 4K120p clips per hour, with still shooting in between. 
If they don't make it right hybrid shooters are in for another couple of year of waiting (for those who wanted a complete package of at least 4K60P 10 bits + IBIS + great AF + great stills + FF in a small package).

[Andrew Reid]

Seems fishy to me.

[Eric Calabros]

Imagine they release a firmware fix that removes their media alert limits. It will be the first official admission that they used cripple hammer. Its embarrassing either way. 

[Andrew Reid]

Media alert! All EOS R5 owners will get a free R5 shaped box delivered on Monday.

Canon look forward to all the creative ways users will find to wrap the camera body and send it back to Japan.

[Cliff Totten]

Bottom line:

Canon wants this camera to be used only in certain ways for specific applications. So, they design the R5 for that and that only.

We, however want to use the R5 "our" way. We want it to "fit" into the way "we" work. We pretty much all want to use the R5 "our" way and we are getting pissed that its not working.

The problem is "us". We expect too much from the R5 but we eventually need to learn how to accept it for the limited application it was designwd for.

The R5 is not a pro camcorder. Its not for paid video work. Its made to capture your kids in your backyard in 8k or your cats playing with a laser pointer. Its made for casual home shooting and nothing more.

Its failure us our fault, no Cannon's

CT

[mechanicalEYE]

 

[EduPortas]

9 minutes ago, Cliff Totten said:

Its failure us our fault, no Cannon's

CT

So this is a classic case of newer is not always better.

It's incredible how reviewers keep spinning the idea that the R5 is not for professionals.

Of course it is! The price and specs define that by itself. Also the high price of Canon RF lenses.

Professionals bought Canon because they were dependable cameras, even if they were underspec'd. To this very day you will find thousands of payed professionals using the venerable 7DM2, 5DM3/M4, and obviously the 1D in its various incarnations. They are workhorses that will ever rarely fail, unless you seriously deface them like some jackass demonstrated in a Digital Rev video way back.

These new mirrorless FFs? I don't think so.

[herein2020]

18 minutes ago, Cliff Totten said:

Bottom line:

Canon wants this camera to be used only in certain ways for specific applications. So, they design the R5 for that and that only.

We, however want to use the R5 "our" way. We want it to "fit" into the way "we" work. We pretty much all want to use the R5 "our" way and we are getting pissed that its not working.

The problem is "us". We expect too much from the R5 but we eventually need to learn how to accept it for the limited application it was designwd for.

The R5 is not a pro camcorder. Its not for paid video work. Its made to capture your kids in your backyard in 8k or your cats playing with a laser pointer. Its made for casual home shooting and nothing more.

Its failure us our fault, no Cannon's

CT

I have two conspiracy theories of my own:

• Theory 1 - Canon had no choice but to release this camera exactly like it is. They knew the A7SIII was going to be announced any day and upper leadership told the engineers that they did not have 6 months to develop a new body and cooling solution so they decided to release it anyway; with this strategy they will reel in whoever is blindly loyal enough to buy it with all of its shortcomings while buying themselves some time to release an updated model within the next 6 months or so; basically a page from Sony's playbook and a continuation of the EOS R stopgap approach.
• Theory 2 - This is their first run at IBIS and they didn't expect it to to really overheat this much in real world use. They also maybe didn't account for just how much of the world is hot and humid and they underestimated the fallout from an overheating limitation vs. a known software cripple hammer. So now they are in a bunch of boardroom meetings trying to decide if they should raise their very conservative recovery timer while risking shortening the life of the camera body by letting the internal temps rise higher than they do now and while returning usability faster than the current timer allows both of which will probably end up frying the camera in the long run but after the warranty runs out.

In my opinion both theories still come to the same conclusion...these cameras are not fit for purpose let alone a camera that can comfortably be used as primary production video camera on a professional set (Canon's marketing materials not my words). So yea, they set the expectations very high and we are perfectly entitled to be pissed off that it doesn't live up to their own marketing hype.

[herein2020]

4 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

https://www.eoshd.com/news/the-real-world-4k-hq-overheating-limit-is-2-minutes-on-the-canon-eos-r5-say-dpreview/

The best part about their test is it was only 27C, it was 35C here in FL today with 64% humidity and the interior of a car here can easily reach 49C if you have to leave your equipment in your car for any reason.

[Jtdiddy]

Um, it was just proven yesterday that you can record 4 hours continuous of 4K HQ to an external recorder like the Ninja V, with no card inserted and with a dummy battery.  And then apparently, its a quicker cool down (i.e 5min) and then u can record again. Check out "NoLife" channel on YT.  That's plenty of record time for most if not everyone. 

So it seems recording high res video internally has overheating issues only. 

[Cliff Totten]

3 hours ago, herein2020 said:

I have two conspiracy theories of my own:

• Theory 1 - Canon had no choice but to release this camera exactly like it is. They knew the A7SIII was going to be announced any day and upper leadership told the engineers that they did not have 6 months to develop a new body and cooling solution so they decided to release it anyway; with this strategy they will reel in whoever is blindly loyal enough to buy it with all of its shortcomings while buying themselves some time to release an updated model within the next 6 months or so; basically a page from Sony's playbook and a continuation of the EOS R stopgap approach.
• Theory 2 - This is their first run at IBIS and they didn't expect it to to really overheat this much in real world use. They also maybe didn't account for just how much of the world is hot and humid and they underestimated the fallout from an overheating limitation vs. a known software cripple hammer. So now they are in a bunch of boardroom meetings trying to decide if they should raise their very conservative recovery timer while risking shortening the life of the camera body by letting the internal temps rise higher than they do now and while returning usability faster than the current timer allows both of which will probably end up frying the camera in the long run but after the warranty runs out.

In my opinion both theories still come to the same conclusion...these cameras are not fit for purpose let alone a camera that can comfortably be used as primary production video camera on a professional set (Canon's marketing materials not my words). So yea, they set the expectations very high and we are perfectly entitled to be pissed off that it doesn't live up to their own marketing hype.

My Cannon insider source told me that the R5 had "strict recording limiatations" back in January. Before that, he knew this way back last year when he saw early test units. Here's the thing....the R5 simply was never designed to run cool from day 1. Its not an engineering mistake in any way. Through the entire design process, managers thought "Ok...it does enough for us to be OK with it" and it was given the green light to go into manufacturing.

Canon did not realize that people would be this upset about it. They expected us to grumble about it,...sure. They expected us to nit-pick and be a little irritated....but NOT super crazy angry about it.

Cannon does not want us to use the R5 the way "WE" want to use it. Cannon made it for short clips only. It was designed for casual, light use only. They want you to buy Cine EOS cameras for durable, pro shooting or event work.

Guys....the R5 overheats because it is "supposed" to. It's NOT designed...to NOT overheat. 

[visionrouge]

1 hour ago, Cliff Totten said:

Canon did not realize that people would be this upset about it

Overheating forbid to use of the camera in video.
How This statement is even possible?
People will not be upset about buying a camera with video but not be able to record anything?
Do not makes sens.

[Punio]

Considering a Ninja V would be cheaper than a few CFExpress cards and you get ProRes, this seems like hopeful conclusion to the heating debate. Now I just have to wait and start creating 🙏🏼

[Nezza]

Canon arrogantly took people for granted and thought they could get away with it because they are 'Canon'. But this is not the year 2000. They have serious competition with Sony and smartphones are now photography for the masses.

Andrew and others have written how this is a problem with Japanese companies more broadly and their failure to adapt and keep an 84 year old CEO just for example. Canon is in serious trouble and in 5-10 years will not be the size they are now.

[MrSMW]

2 hours ago, Punio said:

Considering a Ninja V would be cheaper than a few CFExpress cards and you get ProRes, this seems like hopeful conclusion to the heating debate.

Only if you shoot purely video and have no consideration for hybrid shooting, ie, stills + video.

Based on that chart, I could say, "hey great, I only shoot 10-15 second 4k 50p clips and would add in maybe another 10 or so of the same length 4k 100p, so I'd be OK".

But this does not take into account:

A: The camera simply being switched on and left on which begins to heat things up. They all do of course.

B: Shooting stills which further heats up the camera. All cameras do this also.

What currently is the big unknown is just how much impact A + B will have on the video side other than an impact it does have.

So yes, some workarounds may exist in certain scenarios for anyone determined to make the system work in certain ways, but it is not THE answer.

[zerocool22]

Yeah call me crazy, but I am going to snatch one when either prices drop or I can find one used, as the price in Europe is crazy. + ef adapter. So hoping a lot of presellers will sell their camera at major discounts.

I wish there was external prores recording to something the size  of a usb thumb drive. So without a monitor. Arent there any smaller prores recorders then the ninja 5? Battery life of these external recorders + the extra weight defeat the purpose of a small hybrid camera.