SteveV4D Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 5 minutes ago, Super8 said: How many cameras disguised heat issues with recording limits or recording externally. If Canon can give 30min solid record times with quick recovery times then no one should have an issue with the R5. Exactly and if Canon do give that, I am sure many of us could work around it. I've avoided Sony for its own overheating issues, but I know many in my line of work do use it successfully. If the R5 and R6 is on the same level for heat management, I'm sure people will adapt and make use of the camera. But if its worse than Sony. If the recovery times are considerably larger and the overheating persistent even in all temperature, indoors and outdoors and not just in the hot sun outside, then Canon has a problem. And many will avoid it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RawZion Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 My beloved Canon 5dmk 3 was stolen in January, and I held on to the insurance money to see what new cameras would come out by the time I started getting regular gigs again (winter in Canada is always slow, and then we had a pandemic). I use a Sony a7iii as my main workhorse, with all Nikon lenses adapted to ef (and then ef-e for Sony) but the Canon was a wonderful B-Cam, or A-Cam when I had the time to use Magic Lantern. Everything Canon has made since the 5d3 has been a huge step backwards (first losing ML in the 5d4 and then the ridiculous 4k crop in that and the R). Now it looks like the R5 is too risky to be used professionally, so I won't be buying it either, and that saddens me as the specs looked beautiful and I know that with a heatsink it could have really performed better than any other camera. But I just can't risk it overheating, especially with those ghastly recovery times. Sony's new camera will still have the severe flaw that has plagued them for ten years now: unchangeable file names. In a multi-cam situation it is incredibly easy to make major mistakes, and that problem is compounded when you add proxies to your workflow. Also, B&H says they won't begin shipping the a7siii until late September, so we're looking at waiting until at least October for that camera anyways. The Panasonic S1H is great (a friend of mine uses it) but would be a huge investment not only in body costs, but also for lenses (L-Mount adapters cost way too much). So given all of that, I recently rented the Nikon z6, and found it to be pretty equal to the Sony a7iii for video, minus a couple cool but unnecessary features (digital zoom, in-body proxies), and absolutely fabulous for photography (see photos below). It's a solid professional, dependable camera that's about half the price of the Panasonic S1H, so I'm going to buy it tomorrow. Using Andrew Reid's Z-Log on the Nikon and his Pro Log on the Sony matched perfectly for video. Maybe in 5 years I'll give Canon's next camera a chance, but no professional can work with a camera that can brick at any moment, and then stay cooked for the rest of the day. Video Hummus, cam1982, jpfilmz and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpfilmz Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 14 minutes ago, SteveV4D said: Exactly and if Canon do give that, I am sure many of us could work around it. I've avoided Sony for its own overheating issues, but I know many in my line of work do use it successfully. If the R5 and R6 is on the same level for heat management, I'm sure people will adapt and make use of the camera. But if its worse than Sony. If the recovery times are considerably larger and the overheating persistent even in all temperature, indoors and outdoors and not just in the hot sun outside, then Canon has a problem. And many will avoid it. The overheating recovery time is pretty horrible. Totally unusable for a full day of work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emanuel Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 Already posted a few pages back. If they won't address it, they're shooting their own feet. It doesn't make ANY sense. It is even plain ridiculous. And it is not noble for the brand. They could have fixed, they candidly didn't want it. It doesn't matter how loyal we are to or dislike Canon, it is simply true. Jonathan422 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emanuel Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 5 hours ago, HansD said: I may have overlooked it, but I haven't seen a message that the Canon EOS R5 gets very hot on the outside too. Armando Ferreira says in his video 'The Canon EOS R5 IS NOT AN 8K CAMERA!': When the camera (R5) says it is overheated, I touch the camera, it is pretty much cool to the touch! Does this not indicate badly calibrated heat sensors or an incorrect reading by the firmware? Or a combination of both? Seems crippled by the firmware in order to protect their high-end, so let's be optimistic they will stop to be jerks and give us what the technology is able for to begin with. This cat-mouse game does NOT dignify the brand. As good customer of theirs (aside cameras, we are currently using a C500 in a feature film + three short films to be shot in Santander, Spain and I still have 2x units of a large format printer as workhorses, let alone another half-dozen of Canon units around), I expect a change. cam1982 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Video Hummus Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Super8 said: How many cameras disguised heat issues with recording limits or recording externally. If Canon can give 30min solid record times with quick recovery times then no one should have an issue with the R5. Exactly Emanuel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herein2020 Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 1 hour ago, RawZion said: Sony's new camera will still have the severe flaw that has plagued them for ten years now: unchangeable file names. Just FYI...according to Gerald Undone you can now change the file names in the A7SIII....of course for images 12MP may not be enough for cropping and recomposing. Emanuel and RawZion 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herein2020 Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 2 hours ago, ade towell said: Yes many of us were interested before this heat problem I had the R6 in my shopping cart....but Peter McKinnon's review where he hinted that their were overheating problems then quickly glossed over them made me pause just long enough to find out just how bad it really is, I planned on replacing my GH5 with the R6 and if that went well eventually replacing my 5D with the R5. I would then be all in on Canon C200, R5, and R6....instead now I'm wondering what the GH6 will look like and will hang on to my 5DIV for a few more years. cam1982 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super8 Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 16 minutes ago, Emanuel said: Seems crippled by the firmware in order to protect their high-end, so let's be optimistic they will stop to be jerks and give us what the technology is able for to begin with. This cat-mouse game does NOT dignify the brand. As good customer of theirs (aside cameras, we are currently using a C500 in a feature film + three short films to be shot in Santander, Spain and I still have 2x units of a large format printer as workhorses, let alone another half-dozen of Canon units around), I expect a change. No it's not the firmware causing the issue. Do you really think firmware would cause cameras to stop recording at 17minutes with an overheating icon warning and then go 21 minutes for someone else. Let's stop this rumor and false statement from spreading NOW. In this thread the S1H, R5 and A7S3 are all given outside temp readings and they are all around the same temp except the S1H comes in with the lowest temp. You wonder how hit marketing works, now you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaiS Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 2h of recovering time means, the camera is almost thermally isolated. It literally "keeps" the thermal energy. A teapot cools down faster. If it really had a metal body all round figures would be much better. What if the display is flipped out? This helps with some cameras. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herein2020 Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 Just now, Super8 said: No it's not the firmware causing the issue. Do you really think firmware would cause cameras to stop recording at 17minutes with an overheating icon warning and then go 21 minutes for someone else. Let's stop this rumor and false statement from spreading NOW. In this thread the S1H, R5 and A7S3 are all given outside temp readings and they are all around the same temp except the S1H comes in with the lowest temp. You wonder how hit marketing works, now you know. It could be the firmware causing the issue. If the firmware reading the internal temp is faulty or buggy then it would yield similar results...similar to battery meters that never seem accurate. After seeing the R5 circuit board I think there is no way to actually fix this problem until the R5 Mark 2, but I do think it was the firmware preventing the camera from working properly 5hrs later. Emanuel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emanuel Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 7 minutes ago, Super8 said: No it's not the firmware causing the issue. Do you really think firmware would cause cameras to stop recording at 17minutes with an overheating icon warning and then go 21 minutes for someone else. Let's stop this rumor and false statement from spreading NOW. No, it's not like that : ) Take a look on that video report already posted in this thread twice! Nothing about the overheating now. Of course, this is related to hardware, design and lack of heat dissipation. It's all about the firmware on their imposed limitations and time to give full capabilities back. 6+ hours long !! Are they kidding us?? @herein2020 you beat me for a couple of minutes! ;- ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nezza Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 People that think this is a firmware fix are deluded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emanuel Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 12 minutes ago, herein2020 said: It could be the firmware causing the issue. If the firmware reading the internal temp is faulty or buggy then it would yield similar results...similar to battery meters that never seem accurate. After seeing the R5 circuit board I think there is no way to actually fix this problem until the R5 Mark 2, but I do think it was the firmware preventing the camera from working properly 5hrs later. There are workarounds at the hardware level, they can implement though ;- ) 5 minutes ago, Nezza said: People that think this is a firmware fix are deluded. About the time to wait for having the camera back to full capabilities back shorter than 6+ hour long? This can be fixed by firmware. cam1982 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herein2020 Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 On 7/31/2020 at 11:29 AM, Super8 said: I'm talking about image quality you see as the final product. It's an honest question, right? I need to see comparable S1H image quality to the R5 before I by off on the S1H. Right now S1H footage looks like S1 and Z6 footage. Same sensor with the same image quality. If I invest in the S1H I don't want it to be because of paper specs. I'm still doing my homework on the S1H and maybe Pro Res RAW is the answer I'm looking for. I don't really understand why it's not the preferred camera with Canon and Sony coming up short with the R5 and A7SIII. I love the idea of the S1H and I have the GH5, below are the reasons that I did not get the S1H: Color Science - Canon still wins here no question about it Stills - Canon still wins here as well, if I'm going to spend upwards of $6K (body and lens) it's either going to be a cinema camera or it better be able to replace my 5DIV...I don't feel the S1H can replace my 5DIV, and I already own a C200 Lenses - The L mount lenses has got to be smallest selection from any system....even if I thought the S1H could replace the 5DIV what about the lenses? While we are on the topic, the L mount lenses are ridiculously expensive AF - A gimbal camera needs AF, I'm already using MF with my GH5, I am not going to spend $6K and still have the same problem I love everything else Panasonic did with the S1H and don't mind the size, but I'm not going to spend what it takes to move up to it just to have the same problems I have with my GH5. I think those same reasons are why a lot of people waited patiently and thought Canon finally had their act together with the R5 and R6 until reality hit all of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWR Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 Have multiple bodies maintained/rotated by the new crew member: Thermal Management Technician. 3rd party needs to fashion something similar to the old film camera sound blimps, but more like an icepack for ankles. MrSMW 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nezza Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 7 minutes ago, Emanuel said: About the time to wait for having the camera back to full capabilities back shorter than 6+ hour long? This can be fixed by firmware. It's waaaaaay more physically fundamental than that - can they give a few more mins recording time with a firmware update? Probably. Will that make a professional, usable tool for video? Not even close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emanuel Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 5 minutes ago, Nezza said: It's waaaaaay more physically fundamental than that - can they give a few more mins recording time with a firmware update? Probably. Will that make a professional, usable tool for video? Not even close. This can be a useful specialised tool, not a workhorse, with: 1) https://tilta.com/2020/07/tiltaing-camera-cage-for-canon-r5/ 2) https://www.indiatoday.in/technology/news/story/canon-designs-additional-adapter-to-fix-canon-eos-r5-overheating-issue-1705356-2020-07-28 3) Update to lift up their firmware limitations. cam1982 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herein2020 Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 2 minutes ago, Nezza said: It's waaaaaay more physically fundamental than that - can they give a few more mins recording time with a firmware update? Probably. Will that make a professional, usable tool for video? Not even close. I agree...not to mention the thing no one is talking about.....how much will overheating that much shorten the overall life of the camera? I feel like these bodies will start dropping like flies about 2 months after the warranty runs out if the owner has been using much video. Nezza 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nezza Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 1 minute ago, Emanuel said: This is a specialised tool, not a workhorse. 1) https://tilta.com/2020/07/tiltaing-camera-cage-for-canon-r5/ 2) https://www.indiatoday.in/technology/news/story/canon-designs-additional-adapter-to-fix-canon-eos-r5-overheating-issue-1705356-2020-07-28 Desperately clutching at straws. People 'want to believe' there's a silver bullet out there to suddenly make these cameras usable. There isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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