Disappointed in the Canon R6 - Coming From A Canon User

[SteveV4D]

2 hours ago, padam said:

This is the same with the A7SIII by the way, I might say it is too specialised and limited for stills, but other professionals will buy it without hesitation because it is flawless for them.

I think you and I differ on the meaning of flawless.  Mine is, without a single flaw.  R5 has overheating.... flaw.  Rolling shutter apparently... flaw.  

My own cameras also have flaws.  Pocket 4K.  No AF.. flaw.  No tilt screen... flaw.  No weather sealing... flaw.  Can I use it, yes.  Is it one of my favourite cameras to work with, yes.  Is it flawless... certainly not.  

Cameras are tools, not the Holy Grail.  I've never owned a flawless camera and I doubt I'll ever will.

[SteveV4D]

2 hours ago, Super8 said:

Well thank you very much.

You get my point and so does everyone else.

Not with every camera but with the GH5, you only have so long before you can keep calling out it's specs before you have to look at the image it gives you.  In camera years the Gh5 is OLD and has an old looking image.

And you know i didn't write the quote above.  

Yes the GH5 was the first hybrid with this that and the other.  If it's so good and the image is so good then we all are wasting time looking at Canon, Sony and BMP cameras. 

I know your point, get it, no.  I never said the GH5 was so good.  Like all cameras, it has its good points and its bad.  In my opinion, Colour isn't as good as say Canon and Blackmagic.  AF is lousy.  Few other little things. 

You're definately being too harsh on it though... almost like an agenda.  The GH5 was a significant camera when it came out.  Theres no shame it has been succeeded my more recent cameras.  That is how technology progresses.  I still see great stuff shot by decent video guys who use it.  Their work speaks for themselves and the quality of the camera.  I'll put my faith there than some random, anonymous guy on a forum. 

[Super8]

29 minutes ago, Video Hummus said:

So what happens when your camera overheats and shutdowns and won’t let you record? No image is the worst image.

I’m not a professional. But if I was taking money to do a job I wouldn’t feel comfortable using the R5 or R6 based on what I know at this time. It would require you to know exactly the cameras limits from extensive experience using it, especially since temperature records times are documented as being variable in the manual!

As it stands the R5 is a great camera for me because Im doing stuff for my own business that someone else isn’t paying me to do. It’s all on me and I suffer the consequences of my gear shitting the bed when I need it.

I’m also saying give the R5/R6 a chance! Doesn’t mean I don’t think the temperature and record limits are huge show stoppers for a lot of use cases out there, including YouTube and vlogging.

What happens when you try and use AF tracking on the GH5, S1 and S1H and it fails because it doesn't work correctly as advertised?

The R5 and R6 actually state recording times.

As a professional on the last 20 gigs I myself as the DP, the DP hired and anyone else rolling cameras never filmed over 2-3 minutes at a time.   This includes drone footage that has battery limitations and other issues to work around.

I've said the R5, R6 probably aren't for gigs that require longer record times such as interviews. 

If you get a gig that reguires hours of non-stop recording then of course you pick the right gear for the job.  If you need AF tracking you also pick the right gear.

 

13 minutes ago, SteveV4D said:

 I still see great stuff shot by decent video guys who use it.  Their work speaks for themselves and the quality of the camera.  I'll put my faith there than some random, anonymous guy on a forum. 

I saw some GH5 footage edit the other day that was amazing.  The work captured and produced was really great work.

[herein2020]

39 minutes ago, Super8 said:

What happens when you try and use AF tracking on the GH5, S1 and S1H and it fails because it doesn't work correctly as advertised?

The R5 and R6 actually state recording times.

As a professional on the last 20 gigs I myself as the DP, the DP hired and anyone else rolling cameras never filmed over 2-3 minutes at a time.   This includes drone footage that has battery limitations and other issues to work around.

I've said the R5, R6 probably aren't for gigs that require longer record times such as interviews. 

If you get a gig that reguires hours of non-stop recording then of course you pick the right gear for the job.  If you need AF tracking you also pick the right gear.

 

I saw some GH5 footage edit the other day that was amazing.  The work captured and produced was really great work.

The problem with your logic is that all of the shortcomings are clear, well defined and can be easily worked around. I shoot with the GH5 nearly daily, everyone knows you need to nail the WB, do whatever you can to not shoot HDR scenes, keep the ISO below 1600, and always use MF....simple, clear concise and if you stick to those rules you can get quality footage every time. Oh and if you fail to follow any of those rules a simple retake can fix the issue or you may be close enough to fix it in post.

Overheating is completely different territory where you have no idea if a hot day in direct sunlight with multiple takes will render your camera a brick, if the fact you just pulled it out of a 120 degree car will prevent it from even turning on, and when it does overheat there is no workaround.....you are sitting around waiting for it to cool. No one is complaining that there is a limit (me least of all), the problem is with thermal limits there is no way to know what is going to push it over the edge; 

• Will 20 or 30 rapid takes make it overheat?
• Will pulling it out of a hot car make it overheat within seconds vs minutes?
• Wil turning off AF and IS make it take longer to overheat?
• Will shooting a photography session on a hot day then switching to video push it over the edge?

And why can't you use a $4000 camera or a $2500 camera for simple interviews? Who has lowered the expectations bar so low that you will accept the fact that your hybrid camera can't even shoot a 30 min event or interview, we are not talking hours like you are trying to imply; I've had simple interviews need multiple 20min takes and the GH5 was perfect for this. The S1H can, the S1 can, the GH5 can, even the EOS R can, and I'm sure the Sony's can...why does Canon's latest hybrid flagships get a pass?

Do you not see the difference yet in thermal problems vs easy to workaround well documented and well known limitations?

[sev7en]

I love this community 🙂

[SteveV4D]

I'm still holding out some hope for the R6.  I'm hoping on the fact that its a crop from DCI to UHD suggests an update to add it one day.  Plus a better codec for the 4K.  I think I heard that its on a planned firmware update.  A few improvements here and there could swing this camera to me.

Yet 20 megapixels does seem low, I'd have preferred 24.  Time will tell if the overheating is as big a problem as some of us fear.  Rolling shutter looks poor and I've seen nasty wobble with IBIS, though those were extreme wide angle, which is normal.

I'm not in need of it till next year, by which time, all this will have blown over and we shall be drooling over the S1H Mark II specs.  No camera enjoys the spotlight for long in this fast changing industry.  

[herein2020]

4 minutes ago, SteveV4D said:

I'm still holding out some hope for the R6.  I'm hoping on the fact that its a crop from DCI to UHD suggests an update to add it one day.  Plus a better codec for the 4K.  I think I heard that its on a planned firmware update.  A few improvements here and there could swing this camera to me.

Yet 20 megapixels does seem low, I'd have preferred 24.  Time will tell if the overheating is as big a problem as some of us fear.  Rolling shutter looks poor and I've seen nasty wobble with IBIS, though those were extreme wide angle, which is normal.

I'm not in need of it till next year, by which time, all this will have blown over and we shall be drooling over the S1H Mark II specs.  No camera enjoys the spotlight for long in this fast changing industry.  

I love the idea of the R6 but it does not record video to both card slots; there is no way I'm going to shoot a wedding with a single card or a major event with a keynote speaker with a single card, or pretty much any paying gig and have no backup. Profit margins in this business are razor thin and all it takes is one bridezilla posting all over the Internet that you lost her priceless wedding footage to tank your company.

Canon is so frustratingly close to perfection, one firmware update away from getting it right. I think 20MP is perfect, the 1DXIII has 20MP and it is in the hands of many pro shooters, in fact I think 20MP makes the R6 even more attractive since it will be a lowlight beast not to mention you can take stills using a $2500 body that is used in their $6500 flagship.  Most images these days end up on Instagram at 960x1200...that's only 1.1MP.

[Super8]

2 hours ago, herein2020 said:

Do you not see the difference yet in thermal problems vs easy to workaround well documented and well known limitations?

The limitations of broken unusable AF tracking on the S1 and S1H makes both cameras unusable. 

For me I have never recorded 30 minutes straight.   So the R6 might work perfectly for me. Or if I need 120p 4K then the R5 might be best. 

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Who has lowered the expectations bar so low that you will accept the fact that your hybrid camera can't even shoot a 30 min event or interview, we are not talking hours like you are trying to imply;

I'm not trying to imply anything but let's wait and see how the R5, R6 shake out.  

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The S1H can, the S1 can, the GH5 can, even the EOS R can, and I'm sure the Sony's can...why does Canon's latest hybrid flagships get a pass?

Again, we need to see how these Canon cameras work in the real work and what options you have to bump down to a lower mbps 4K image and how this affects record time or "THERMAL LIMITATIONS"

Since when is THERMAL tossed around in gear talk?

And if the GH5 checks the boxes with the quality of work you produced then why are you looking at the Canon R5? Why?  It's great to look but you've gone on and on to prove your point is valid.  Everyone's point is valid in this case.  In my words it sucks that Canon didn't figure out a better engineered solution for thermal problems. 

The solution that Canon might arrive at is to add unlimited recording setting that locks any option that causes recording limits to take affect.  Canon's video files have always been bloated so this option could be valid. 

Get a little creative and you'll see the R5 has some impressive specs that should make anyone pay attention.

[herein2020]

1 hour ago, Super8 said:

The limitations of broken unusable AF tracking on the S1 and S1H makes both cameras unusable. 

No AF definitely does not make a camera unusable; I guess Arri and Red should just stop making cameras since they don't have AF. I know on small budget shoots no AF is a real pain and that's why I was so interested in the R6 but to say no AF makes a camera unusable isn't even close to the truth. My GH5 has no usable AF and I have been shooting paying gigs with it for years. My C200 has great AF but I shoot in MF 90% of the time.  The only time I find AF useful for video is when shooting solo on a gimbal and even then I can usually get useable footage with MF. For me it's very hard to trust any AF system for important situations.

 

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I'm not trying to imply anything but let's wait and see how the R5, R6 shake out.  

You did  imply hours and hours of unlimited recording is what it would take to require a different camera

Quote

If you get a gig that reguires hours of non-stop recording then of course you pick the right gear for the job

No one is talking about hours of non stop recording. But to having to worry about overheating during a 30min interview is unacceptable in my opinion.

 

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Since when is THERMAL tossed around in gear talk?

Since Canon chose to forego traditional recording limits and let the camera shoot wide open until it overheats. Shutdown due to heat can be considered a thermal limitation vs a firmware enforced limitation.

 

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And if the GH5 checks the boxes with the quality of work you produced then why are you looking at the Canon R5? Why?  It's great to look but you've gone on and on to prove your point is valid.  Everyone's point is valid in this case.  In my words it sucks that Canon didn't figure out a better engineered solution for thermal problems. 

I have already stated why I am looking at the R6 (not the R5) but in case you missed it here is a more complete list:

 

• Color Science - No explanation needed
• Lens compatibility - I have lenses from my C200 and 5DIV that I could use on the R6
• Color Matching - While possible, it takes extra work in post to match GH5 to the C200
• Photography - The GH5 is useless for photography, the R6 might be the only camera I need to bring to a hybrid photo/video shoot
• Ecosystem - I am already knee deep in the Canon ecosystem, the GH5 is an outlier that does not fit as well with the rest of my Canon gear
• Autofocus - No explanation needed

 

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Get a little creative and you'll see the R5 has some impressive specs that should make anyone pay attention.

This statement doesn't even make sense...for one thing I started this whole thread about the R6 not the R5 and for the other the only creative thing you can do when a camera overheats is find faster ways to cool it down.

[thebrothersthre3]

The R6 would be gimbal cam for me, which is always gonna be short takes. 

That said I might as well get a 1DX MK3. I could use that as a gimbal camera and a camera for any other application (long record times general reliability). Plus it has RAW recording internal. 

I mean I guess buying a R6 plus something like a Pocket 6k or GH5S is still cheaper than a 1DX MK3. 

[herein2020]

1 hour ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

The R6 would be gimbal cam for me, which is always gonna be short takes. 

That said I might as well get a 1DX MK3. I could use that as a gimbal camera and a camera for any other application (long record times general reliability). Plus it has RAW recording internal. 

I mean I guess buying a R6 plus something like a Pocket 6k or GH5S is still cheaper than a 1DX MK3. 

For me the main problem with the R6 is no backup video recording. I am concerned about the reports of overheating, but I feel like there's not enough real world feedback to know how pervasive the issue will be. Dual slot recording on the other hand is clearly not included in the R6 and severely crippled in the R5. I emailed Canon to be certain this isn't planned anytime soon and they replied that it was not currently planned and that they would forward my feedback to the engineers in Japan. They also seemed to hint that feedback in itself (especially from America) does not mean much and that the market response as well as hardware limitations are more important to the Japanese engineers.

I've been thinking and trying to decide if I am ready to live with the fact the R6 has no backup recording for video since to me it is perfect in many other ways and there's things you can do to protect the SD card like turn on the write protection prior to copying the footage but then I just get annoyed that I even have to consider such compromises from a $2500 body + new lens system when my GH5, the S1, the S1H, and multiple Sony models already have the feature. They have compromises in other areas but none of them involve potentially losing a days worth of shooting.

I have also experienced first hand 3 SD cards get corrupted and each time all I did was pull out the second one from my GH5 and use that instead, so I'm not in the camp of "it can't happen to me". It did turn out that it was the card reader that was corrupting the cards, not the camera or the card but it still proves it's certainly possible.

Last but not least, I cannot find it documented anywhere that the 1DX III even supports backup recording. It does let you record RAW on one card and MP4 on the second card like the R5, but true backup recording is the same format on both cards and according to the 1DX III documentation this is not supported:

https://shop.usa.canon.com/shop/en/catalog/eos-1dx-mark-iii

[hmcindie]

You could use the CFExpress cards instead, they are way more robust than the SD ones.

[gt3rs]

12 hours ago, herein2020 said:

For me the main problem with the R6 is no backup video recording. I am concerned about the reports of overheating, but I feel like there's not enough real world feedback to know how pervasive the issue will be. Dual slot recording on the other hand is clearly not included in the R6 and severely crippled in the R5. I emailed Canon to be certain this isn't planned anytime soon and they replied that it was not currently planned and that they would forward my feedback to the engineers in Japan. They also seemed to hint that feedback in itself (especially from America) does not mean much and that the market response as well as hardware limitations are more important to the Japanese engineers.

I've been thinking and trying to decide if I am ready to live with the fact the R6 has no backup recording for video since to me it is perfect in many other ways and there's things you can do to protect the SD card like turn on the write protection prior to copying the footage but then I just get annoyed that I even have to consider such compromises from a $2500 body + new lens system when my GH5, the S1, the S1H, and multiple Sony models already have the feature. They have compromises in other areas but none of them involve potentially losing a days worth of shooting.

I have also experienced first hand 3 SD cards get corrupted and each time all I did was pull out the second one from my GH5 and use that instead, so I'm not in the camp of "it can't happen to me". It did turn out that it was the card reader that was corrupting the cards, not the camera or the card but it still proves it's certainly possible.

Last but not least, I cannot find it documented anywhere that the 1DX III even supports backup recording. It does let you record RAW on one card and MP4 on the second card like the R5, but true backup recording is the same format on both cards and according to the 1DX III documentation this is not supported:

https://shop.usa.canon.com/shop/en/catalog/eos-1dx-mark-iii

1Dx III only in RAW you can save a proxy in the other card (can be 4k 10bit or 8bit as you want). Non RAW are one card only. 

[Nikolas Hirees]

Hi, if the SD card corrupt during Shooting and camera haven't capability of backup. There are many software online which easily repair SD card file or camera files. Such as Stellar Photo Recovery, Easue, Recuva and manu more. You can try any one of these software which provides good result for corrupt files even data recovery. Thanks!

[Danilo Del Tufo]

On 7/12/2020 at 11:37 PM, herein2020 said:

• XLR audio module - this remains to be seen, but so far Canon has not mentioned any plans to release an XLR module for the R5 or R6. This is one of my favorite GH5 features, all of my audio gear uses XLR connectors and for run and gun situations I'll use the GH5 for the whole project including high quality audio capture.

 

I will suggest you to wait A7SIII, that has a XLR module like GH5 and S1H.

[Dunjoye]

A mirrorless photography camera with an XLR input?

🤣🤣🤣 Some of you guys are hilarious 

[ade towell]

It's called an XLR adaptor and is a seperate item from the camera itself but integrates well - the Panasonic one is great with 24 bit high quality XLR audio into the camera, what's not to like?

The Sony one could do with an update as it's not made as well and is 16 bit but still a really good addition to their mirrorless cameras - I do think it would be great if Canon made one, with that and the ef vari nd adaptor they have for the R mount it would turn the R6 and R5 into pretty impressive video cameras when you need it

[SteveV4D]

3 hours ago, Dunjoye said:

A mirrorless photography camera with an XLR input?

🤣🤣🤣 Some of you guys are hilarious 

The GH5 had an adaptor you could buy for the camera to connect to.  Also serves the S1 and S1H.  Its little things like that that make mirrorless cameras usable for video work.  

[Dunjoye]

All of these attachments and extras. Why not just get the real dedicated thing?

Sometimes you have to respect some cameras short comings and figure out work arounds.

Yes, its usually all subjective, but the term "Usable" gets thrown around here alot and I just see it as an excuse for people to get out there and shoot.

[ade towell]

Ok yes you're right let's stop asking for useful things to make our lives easier and products better. 

Point is it would be in Canon's interest to make one, would certainly add a few possible extra sales (me included) and make their product at least as 'usable' a video camera as the competition. You wouldn't have to buy it if you didn't want to