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20 minutes ago, Super8 said:

What?  This is crazy talk.  Right?   So now you don't trust a guy on Facebook's with a resume and links? 

So you only trust people face to face?   

This sounds like jealous snowflake,  "you don't have what someone else has" thinking. 

I'm not a big shot director or cinematographer but people like you and @MrSMW motivate me to get to the big time and just to prove a point.

 

 

Wow, over reaction or what... 😄

My point was on Facebook, you don't often see a resume.  And if they don't post links either, not even their work.

There are people on Facebook who do share their work.  I don't doubt their credentials or experience.  Its there to see.  So yes, I do trust a guy on Facebook with a resume and links, if they're available. :)I've seen plenty of work I admire, and that I have learned from.  I've been a part of several forums and some users I have respected and admired despite never meeting face to face.

And on the subject of face to face.  I'm reminded of an incident years ago, when interviewing a friend of a friend for the position as 2nd cameraman to some work I was doing.  I befriended him on Facebook and arranged to meet him.  It was a good interview, he spoke at length of his experience, which was very impressive.  He seemed a little cocky in his talk, but I had no reason to doubt his word.  However, as I was nervous, employing someone for the first time, I did contact a nearby company he worked for, whose work I was aware of.  She told a very different story to this guy.  Of how he walked out of a job after getting into an argument with a Wedding guest.  Plus a few other things that worried me.

So that was face to face, him being a friend of a friend and having him as a Facebook friend.  Trust is a complicated process, especially with social media. 

Forums are wonderful tools for learning and sharing, but that doesn't mean I take at word every Tom, Dick or Harry saying this, that and everything. ;)

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I think your argument is based around the idea that lenses are an investment, but they're not, they're a consumable. I understand why you might think that, because it's a myth that seems to be on

Your arguments all appear to be circular, or simply saying that things that are MFT or are old are somehow inferior by default.  I guess the Alexa is screwed then, it's really old, the image is soft a

Logged on and what do I see Yes another topic waylaid by Super8 causing arguments If you keep it up, I will have to do what's best for the forum as an informative tool for filmmakers. And yo

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4 minutes ago, SteveV4D said:

Wow, over reaction or what... 😄

My point was on Facebook, you don't often see a resume.  And if they don't post links either, not even their work.

There are people on Facebook who do share their work.  I don't doubt their credentials or experience.  Its there to see.  So yes, I do trust a guy on Facebook with a resume and links, if there to see. :)

And as for face to face.  I'm reminded of an incident years ago, when interviewing a friend of a friend for the position as 2nd cameraman to some work I was doing.  I befriended him on Facebook and arranged to meet him.  It was a good interview, he spoke at length of his experience, which was very impressive.  He seemed a little cocky in his talk, but I had no reason to doubt his word.  However, as I was nervous, employing someone for the first time, I did contact a nearby company he worked for, whose work I was aware of.  She told a very different story to this guy.  Of how he walked out of a job after getting into an argument with a Wedding guest.  Plus a few other things that worried me.

So that was face to face, him being a friend of a friend and having him as a Facebook friend.  Trust is a complicated process, especially with social media. 

Forums are wonderful tools for learning and sharing, but that doesn't mean I take at word every Tom, Dick or Harry saying this, that and everything. ;)

I have made great friends and connections on Facebook that are professional.   Friends recommend people for a reason and it goes both ways. 

"That wasn't my fault.  I did my job on that wedding and that wedding guest had issues" Lol. 

 

 

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Just now, Super8 said:

 

"That wasn't my fault.  I did my job on that wedding and that wedding guest had issues" Lol. 

 

 

Not sure what you mean by that.  There was other stuff that I was told which was more serious, but it felt wrong to bring it up here.  In the end, I gave the job to someone else.  

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Logged on and what do I see

Yes another topic waylaid by Super8 causing arguments

If you keep it up, I will have to do what's best for the forum as an informative tool for filmmakers. And you know what that means.

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11 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Another private (photographers) forum did this and virtually overnight all the shitkickers and keyboard warriors were gone...and the place was better for it.

Interesting.  The liftgammagain.com forums are real names only and are very civil.

Other sites even require you to submit a profile and/or folio of work before you can join.

12 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

I have been considering real names for this forum for a while but it doesn't seem to help the comment standard on the EOSHD Facebook group

It's an interesting idea, and anything that raises the level is worth a try.

I'd support it.

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4 hours ago, kye said:

Interesting.  The liftgammagain.com forums are real names only and are very civil.

I think that's possibly to do with the fact that the vast majority of liftgammagain's members are working professionals - many of whom probably know and/or have worked with each other outside of the forum (or might be asking each other for work at some point in the future). I visit the place quite often as there really isn't another resource like it for colour matters.

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1 hour ago, Tim Sewell said:

I think that's possibly to do with the fact that the vast majority of liftgammagain's members are working professionals - many of whom probably know and/or have worked with each other outside of the forum (or might be asking each other for work at some point in the future). I visit the place quite often as there really isn't another resource like it for colour matters.

I agree.

Correlation isn't causation, but I do suspect that quite a few on here are also higher-level pros of some kind or other who care about their reputation.  I'm not a film-making professional, but everything online is potential fodder for a background search when applying for work, so there is that.  

Of course, I've noticed that the film-making industry seems to be relatively tolerant of people who simply can't get along with others, whereas they'd have a much harder time in some other industries where things are more about getting along with people rather than your talent eclipsing your attitude problems.

For example I can't imagine how Werner Herzog would go in the forums!

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On 7/1/2020 at 11:16 AM, Super8 said:

Cost per unit will not go up in the near future.    We will get more specs and more camera for that $4,500 and that $2,000 price point. 

You've missed my point once again. At the moment MFT does and has offered tremendous value for money! And often getting tech / features / advancements before APS-C / FF / MF cameras do. 

However it doesn't matter if we're getting twice as much for our $2K MFT camera, if the relative performance per dollar gap between then and other larger sensor systems has decreased. (due to economies of scales that has remained for APS-C/FF, but disappeared from MFT due to a shrinking market)

Or even worse, if the gap has not shrunk but reversed itself! Then MFT would really be doomed to a gloomy future. 

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17 minutes ago, IronFilm said:


Or even worse, if the gap has not shrunk but reversed itself! Then MFT would really be doomed to a gloomy future. 

I see MFT joining 1" sensor cameras as being there for those who want basic video and photo features in a cheap body.  Yet overlooked by Professionals.  I wonder if Panasonic will dare release a GH6 in the 2k price bracket now, when fullframe cameras are becoming more affordable.  What can a GH6 offer that will give it the same impact that the GH5 enjoyed in 2017.  

8K, RAW output, ProRes recording.  The camera market has moved on since 2017 and fullframe is moving quickly into the features that once made the GH5 a popular choice.  

Next year will be a good indication of where Panasnonis is heading.  Either a successor to the GH5 or S1...  but the G100 could be an indication of where Panasonic sees the MFT range from now on.

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On 7/1/2020 at 4:14 PM, Super8 said:

My comment that was taken out of the original reply was about run and gun with the P4K and keeping the camera footprint small.  MFT was mention as being great for run and gun.  

But how do you define "run & gun"? As I've pointed out many times in this thread, it is a very broad definition. 

Had today a shoot which I'd call "run and gun". As certainly our DoP (and me too!) as definitely RUNNING and "gunning" to try and keep up with the pace of the shooting.

The crew was:
DoP with a Sony VENICE (and a PL Zoom lens)
1st AC (with wireless FF, and his monitor stand)
2nd AC
Gaffer
Drone Op
BTS stills
Director
Producer
(perhaps someone else I was forgetting, did we have a PA or two? I dunno. The shoot went by fast, lots going on, and it was just a half day shoot)

That could be called a  "run and gun" shoot with a small crew, just a self funded passion project by the director. 

 

7 minutes ago, SteveV4D said:

What can a GH6 offer that will give it the same impact that the GH5 enjoyed in 2017.  

8K, RAW output, ProRes recording.  The camera market has moved on since 2017 and fullframe is moving quickly into the features that once made the GH5 a popular choice.  

GH6 that I want:

Built in ND (3 stage at least! Ideally eND). 
TC input. 
4 channels of audio (TA3F with P48, 3.5mm stereo & mic/line switchable, internal mic)
4K 120fps 10bit internal 
1080/2K 240fps 10bit internal
6K raw output
Full size HDMI and DIN output (and let each output operate independently, one could be v-log, and the other could have a LUT on it for the clients. One could be clean, the other could have camera info overlayed on top)

If the GH6 had all this for sub $2K it would dominate that market segment as top choice for the next cycle of camera releases for sure. 

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On 7/1/2020 at 4:14 PM, Super8 said:

DPAF or AF tracking with the new FF cameras lets true run and gun shooters get shots that would take hours to get with a professional 1st AC pulling focus.  DPAF and AF tracking is not letting the camera do the guess work. 

DPAF simply can not feel the emotion of a scene to tell the story like a 1st AC can. 
A 1st AC has far more fine detail over control of the focus so he can express what the DoP/Director wants. 
 

On 7/1/2020 at 4:14 PM, Super8 said:

It's also not a small minority that use DPAF or AF tracking.   The GH5's and other cameras have faulty AF so defenders say things like "unless you're a small minority " and "let Canon's DPAF do its guesswork".


I can not recall the last time I was on a shoot that used AF.
Guess sometime last year, perhaps?? Think there was a small corporate shoot I recall the cameraman using AF.
Yes, there are people that use AF a lot, but you can't deny there is a huge amount of work being done that never even thinks to use AF. As not even Canon DPAF is optimal. 

 

 

On 7/1/2020 at 4:23 PM, Super8 said:

I'll also take the DoF refrence from this film:  You can have UpStream Color

 

 


"Upstream Color" was referenced to illustrate how MFT can do ridiculous levels of shallow DoF. 

There is no level of DoF in Jaws that MFT couldn't do if you so wished. 

 

On 7/1/2020 at 9:39 PM, MrSMW said:

In fact I don't place any merit on anything you say because you could be a school child in your mothers basement, - there is no way of knowing.

He could even be an Egyptian dentistry student. 

Or his grandfather?
 

18 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

It's not too difficult to see @IronFilm's work/experience, as I subscribe to his YouTube and see him active on Facebook groups, so seeing someone diminish his knowledge and experience by just calling him "an audio guy" really kinda ticks me off. 

Thank you. I'm not hiding anything, I'm easy to find/stalk!

 

  

18 hours ago, Super8 said:

 

@IronFilm sorry for calling you the audio guy.  I know you've put in time and are out making some good work.


Thank you :-) Although I am indeed "that audio guy"! haha
But also, I think I'm a bit more than "just an audio guy", am probably the most camera nerdy soundie there is. 

And just to be clear, I carry no ill will or animosity towards you! (or anybody else on this forum)
Hopefully you can see I'm just very robustly debating the topic/facts/opinions, and not attacking (or at least, I hope not!) the person themselves. 

 

  

3 hours ago, Tim Sewell said:

I think that's possibly to do with the fact that the vast majority of liftgammagain's members are working professionals - many of whom probably know and/or have worked with each other outside of the forum (or might be asking each other for work at some point in the future). I visit the place quite often as there really isn't another resource like it for colour matters.

liftgammagain is like jwsoundgroup, in that the vast vast majority of the active users there are full time professionals with years and years of experience behind them. (except, one is colorists, and the other is production sound mixers)

Reckon that is why they have the tone each do in their forums. 

  

1 hour ago, kye said:

Of course, I've noticed that the film-making industry seems to be relatively tolerant of people who simply can't get along with others, whereas they'd have a much harder time in some other industries where things are more about getting along with people rather than your talent eclipsing your attitude problems.

Not sure I'd agree with that, I'd say for your average joe run of the mill working crew member on a film set who is making a good living, then having excellent social skills ranks quite highly. And you should aspire to being as friendly/agreeable/sociable as possible, and not an anti social intolerable asshole. Because networking is key in this industry.

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2 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Not sure I'd agree with that, I'd say for your average joe run of the mill working crew member on a film set who is making a good living, then having excellent social skills ranks quite highly. And you should aspire to being as friendly/agreeable/sociable as possible, and not an anti social intolerable asshole. Because networking is key in this industry.

To be clear, I'd suggest the vast vast majority are good natured team players.

It seems that there are a select few who have talent so significant that they are tolerated in the industry, perhaps finding a small cohort that can stand to work with them.  In many other industries it doesn't matter how good you are, there are levels of attitude problem that mean you can't really operate in any meaningful way at all.

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17 minutes ago, fuzzynormal said:

What are the odds that Oly sells to JIP in order for JIP to unload expensive assets and employees.  Oly can't do this legally under Japanese law.  Then, after restructuring, OLY buys back the new company which is more nimble, streamlined, and able to exist in the black?  .001%. Wishful thinking?

 

tenor.gif

Unfortunately I think that the outcome will be only your first phrase.

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59 minutes ago, Márcio Kabke Pinheiro said:

Unfortunately I think that the outcome will be only your first phrase.

Well, if not Oly buying it, someone else perhaps?  .0001%?  Is owning a camera company a fool's errand at this point or could that potential organization have a place in the market?  Eh, that's me, always rooting for the underdog.

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