Administrators Andrew Reid Posted March 23, 2012 Administrators Share Posted March 23, 2012 [html][img]http://www.eoshd.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/digital-cinema-cameras-guide.jpg[/img]Disclaimer: I usually say don’t wait – shoot with what you can get now, the best you can afford. But March 2012 is an unusual month because NAB 2012 is around the corner in April. The picture may change somewhat. Bear that in mind!The candidates are:[url="http://www.eoshd.com/content/7576/which-digital-cinema-camera-to-get-now/"]Read full article[/url][/html] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biginvegas Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 So you bought the FS100 and [i]consistently never mention[/i] or dismiss the Panasonic Af100 that has now dropped into that $4200k price zone. I have just shot a feature doc, shooting it solo with a hacked GH2 (driftwood) and AF100 with mostly the Voigtlander 0.95. as it was mostly a night shoot. The only issue I had shooting daily for 6 weeks with the GH2 was inconsistent decent sound (Beachtek to XLR mic or Zoom H4N) as compared to the AF100 plug in my Rode NTG and go. The AF as a pro doc camera for its price is the best out there. I often backpacked both and would shoot depending on circumstances. Intimate more personal space the GH2. Events, out door run and gun, the AF rocked handheld or with a monopod, no rig needed even though I own the Cineroid EVF. I did the full comparison with the FS100 when I bought the AF. Barry Greens ( I know how you love the guy!) comparison pretty much summed up the two for me. [url=http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?260461-FS100-and-AF100-compared&highlight=af100+v+sony+fs100]http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?260461-FS100-and-AF100-compared&highlight=af100+v+sony+fs100[/url] The only issue I have is blown highlights in the AF100 that I get around by either figuring out composition in shot, use the GH2 or live with the image and try grade. This is documentary after all and it's always how I tell the story first (that is get the story!) rather than what my footage looks like. BTW peaking on AF100, in camera ND's and waveform excellent when I'm handheld run and gun. I'm putting in an order for the Voigt 17mm 0.95 and with that and my Nikon primes figure I'm good to go for next few feature docs and several years to come. At the moment cutting and still shooting and I'm 60-40 GH2 ratio of shooting but expect to be 50-50 by end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tungah Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 No Canon 1DX love? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahowes83 Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I know the AF100 has worse picture quality in some ways than the hacked GH2, but it does have an ND filter, XLRs, etc, and sells for as little as $3K on eBay. I'd probably prefer the FS100 to some extent, but you could get the AF100 and a GH2 for the price of the FS100, and you share lenses between the two. Sounds like a pretty good combo to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjpdotcom Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 thanks to your review, I've cancelled my 5DMIII pre-order and I'm now in the market for the FS100. Any recommendations on where to find a used one other than eBay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted March 23, 2012 Author Administrators Share Posted March 23, 2012 [quote author=tungah link=topic=454.msg2861#msg2861 date=1332518594] No Canon 1DX love? [/quote] Not used one but on paper, nothing to offer over 5D Mark III for video apart from an eye watering price tag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted March 23, 2012 Author Administrators Share Posted March 23, 2012 [quote author=biginvegas link=topic=454.msg2860#msg2860 date=1332517823] So you bought the FS100 and [i]consistently never mention[/i] or dismiss the Panasonic Af100 that has now dropped into that $4200k price zone. I have just shot a feature doc, shooting it solo with a hacked GH2 (driftwood) and AF100 with mostly the Voigtlander 0.95. as it was mostly a night shoot. The only issue I had shooting daily for 6 weeks with the GH2 was inconsistent decent sound (Beachtek to XLR mic or Zoom H4N) as compared to the AF100 plug in my Rode NTG and go. The AF as a pro doc camera for its price is the best out there. I often backpacked both and would shoot depending on circumstances. Intimate more personal space the GH2. Events, out door run and gun, the AF rocked handheld or with a monopod, no rig needed even though I own the Cineroid EVF. I did the full comparison with the FS100 when I bought the AF. Barry Greens ( I know how you love the guy!) comparison pretty much summed up the two for me. [url=http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?260461-FS100-and-AF100-compared&highlight=af100+v+sony+fs100]http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?260461-FS100-and-AF100-compared&highlight=af100+v+sony+fs100[/url] The only issue I have is blown highlights in the AF100 that I get around by either figuring out composition in shot, use the GH2 or live with the image and try grade. This is documentary after all and it's always how I tell the story first (that is get the story!) rather than what my footage looks like. BTW peaking on AF100, in camera ND's and waveform excellent when I'm handheld run and gun. I'm putting in an order for the Voigt 17mm 0.95 and with that and my Nikon primes figure I'm good to go for next few feature docs and several years to come. At the moment cutting and still shooting and I'm 60-40 GH2 ratio of shooting but expect to be 50-50 by end. [/quote] I just don't think, aside from the ND, that the AF100 offers much over the FS100 because it has a weaker sensor and a bulkier form factor. The GH2 has better image quality for $600 with the hack. I don't need the AF100 alongside it, the FS100 is just flat out better for my needs. Read Barry's views on the AF100 vs FS100 and he is welcome to keep them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eosjames Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I didn't realize how much the FS100 has changed. Thats a great bang4buck. I would get that now of the choices. My only concern would be in getting used to all those buttons. :) Hoping Panny will update an AF200 but i'll likely pick up a GH3 when that comes out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lubricated Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Damn guys, all this waiting and now i have only more questions than answers. Initial idea was to get Nikon d800 with one of the cheep external recorders, but i hate moire so that one is not going to happen. MkIII video improvements for 4 year wait are simply not good enough... Can there possibly be more 1080p like image on 1Dx or it will be exactly the same? fs100 is a great one, but i need good stills too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sara Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 In the Red Scarlet / C300 category you forgot the Sony F3. It is $13,999 with S-log free now and in the US a $800 rebate - $13,199 is a steal for dynamic range second only to the Alexa. Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted March 23, 2012 Author Administrators Share Posted March 23, 2012 The reason the F3 wasn't included was because I don't think it is unique enough. All the cameras in the article had unique differences... such as the slow mo of the FS100 and the price, the cheap cost of a 5D Mark II on eBay used relative to other full frame video cameras capable of as good an image, the cheap price and astoundingly insane res of the GH2, etc, etc. The F3 is a great camera but it basically delivers nip and tuck the same image quality as the FS100 with G-LOG profile. And I don't like the form factor... At least the C300 and Scarlet have unique selling points for their high prices... The C300's 'perfect 1080p' downscaled from a 4K CMOS, the form factor and the Scarlet's 4K and aggressive specs. The F3 like the FS100 is not completely free of artefacts like the C300 is but I doubt anyone in an audience would notice to be honest! Even on a cinema screen! That leaves us with one more notable exception in the article... the AF100. You have to REALLLLLY want the ND and HD-SDI of this camera to downgrade your sensor so much over the similarly priced FS100. I also dislike the design of it, seems a bit dated now. Don't forget the GH2 performs better than the AF100 for image quality, even on a chart! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZigFilm Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I think it's important to not just compare specs and features but to also compare the looks that these cameras create. Personally, I love the look of the footage shot with the MII. I am still thinking of adding a MIII for the low light features but I'm not in a particular hurry to pull the trigger. The FS100 sounds like an amazing camera but the footage looks very stale and flat to me. Very "video-y". Yeah, I know, that's very technical of me to say... I really want to see the MIII and the FS100 footage side by side. I'm also worried that cutting the 5D MII footage in with the FS100 footage won't look great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted March 24, 2012 Author Administrators Share Posted March 24, 2012 [quote author=ZigFilm link=topic=454.msg2885#msg2885 date=1332545791] I think it's important to not just compare specs and features but to also compare the looks that these cameras create. Personally, I love the look of the footage shot with the MII. I am still thinking of adding a MIII for the low light features but I'm not in a particular hurry to pull the trigger. The FS100 sounds like an amazing camera but the footage looks very stale and flat to me. Very "video-y". Yeah, I know, that's very technical of me to say... I really want to see the MIII and the FS100 footage side by side. I'm also worried that cutting the 5D MII footage in with the FS100 footage won't look great. [/quote] Agree with you that the aesthetics are more important than specs but I don't think the FS100 footage looks like video, it depends how it is shot and graded. Sharper footage doesn't always look less cinematic. Take a look at this for a good example of what the FS100 (and F3) is capable of... [url=http://www.vimeo.com/29106428]Reeling Back / Autumn 2011[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sara Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 [quote author=ZigFilm link=topic=454.msg2885#msg2885 date=1332545791] I think it's important to not just compare specs and features but to also compare the looks that these cameras create. Personally, I love the look of the footage shot with the MII. I am still thinking of adding a MIII for the low light features but I'm not in a particular hurry to pull the trigger. The FS100 sounds like an amazing camera but the footage looks very stale and flat to me. Very "video-y". Yeah, I know, that's very technical of me to say... I really want to see the MIII and the FS100 footage side by side. I'm also worried that cutting the 5D MII footage in with the FS100 footage won't look great. [/quote] I think you got those two confused - imo MK2/3 are far more videoy vs an FS100 or F3 But if you really want to ditch the video look rent/buy the Ikonoskop A-cam - global shutter, raw, very soft organic look to the files with milky shadows. Dynamic range is limited and the small sensor would probably make super shallow depth of field tricky, but it does produce a very pleasing image. https://vimeo.com/28717821 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neumann Films Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 You mentioned that you can use Kingston SSD with the Scarlet. Have you actually done this? If that's true it's a big deal! Their Red SSD's are insanely priced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZigFilm Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 [quote author=Andrew Reid - EOSHD link=topic=454.msg2887#msg2887 date=1332547458] Agree with you that the aesthetics are more important than specs but I don't think the FS100 footage looks like video, it depends how it is shot and graded. Sharper footage doesn't always look less cinematic. Take a look at this for a good example of what the FS100 (and F3) is capable of... [url=http://vimeo.com/29106428]Reeling Back / Autumn 2011[/url] [/quote] Thanks, Andrew! I really appreciate the link. I would love to see a real narrative scene shot with this camera. All I've been able to find has looked like soap operas and porn... To be honest, this reel is so full of over processed shots, slow motion, lens flares, and other stuff it's really hard to tell what any normal footage would look like. When I say normal, I mean footage you would actually use in a narrative. Please post any more links or PM them to me. I really want to love this camera since it has so many great features and is pretty inexpensive! 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lubricated Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 red are bastards, period. that Ikonoskop A-cam screenshot looks great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ousta Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 what about the sony a77. for the same price of the nex offers some advantages that no current camera has. steadyshot + fast AF in movies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mografi Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Hey Andrew, I was just wondering where you were getting the $4000 price for a used fs100 from? I've been watching eBay for weeks and the lowest I've seen for the body has been about $4500-4700 usd. I'd love to know where else I should be looking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZigFilm Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 [quote author=Sara link=topic=454.msg2892#msg2892 date=1332551659] [quote author=ZigFilm link=topic=454.msg2885#msg2885 date=1332545791] I think it's important to not just compare specs and features but to also compare the looks that these cameras create. Personally, I love the look of the footage shot with the MII. I am still thinking of adding a MIII for the low light features but I'm not in a particular hurry to pull the trigger. The FS100 sounds like an amazing camera but the footage looks very stale and flat to me. Very "video-y". Yeah, I know, that's very technical of me to say... I really want to see the MIII and the FS100 footage side by side. I'm also worried that cutting the 5D MII footage in with the FS100 footage won't look great. [/quote] I think you got those two confused - imo MK2/3 are far more videoy vs an FS100 or F3 But if you really want to ditch the video look rent/buy the Ikonoskop A-cam - global shutter, raw, very soft organic look to the files with milky shadows. Dynamic range is limited and the small sensor would probably make super shallow depth of field tricky, but it does produce a very pleasing image. [url=https://vimeo.com/28717821]https://vimeo.com/28717821[/url] [/quote] Yeah, the more I see comparison footage between the 5D and other cameras the more I like the 5D. I guess that's lucky for me since I already have one :) This one really sealed it for me: [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKSwnlIUNeU#ws]Canon 5D Mark II vs Sony NEX-FS100 vs Canon T3i[/url] Thanks for the Ikonoskop link!!! The footage is great. I can find that camera used plus a couple lenses for about 12K. Not too bad. Cheaper than the C300! I think I am going to wait for April 15 to see what Canon is announcing before I buy anything more. Thanks again for everyone's help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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