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Andrew Reid

Comprehensive Sigma Fp first impressions and interview - Cinema DNG RAW internal recording!

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I succumbed and bought one. 

I will test more fully over the next week. Ergonomically from a stills view it's very much a urgh. No EVF makes life very difficult for me but i do have the VF on order so maybe that will change things.

Cine mode. DNG. It's heaven. This is all you need from a camera. I've side by sided UHD 8bit onto SDXC vs A7sII UHD Slog2/Sgamut and there's no joke. It's almost comical. The low end and the highlights are literally playing in different ballparks. What crushes the A7sII footage is the compression. Simple as that. So that 8 bit UHD is remarkably good. I'm pushing and pulling it and comparing to the same thing shot  FHD in 12 bit and it's incredibly robust - so much more than it should be.

Over the next week i'll push and pull properly. I got it as I needed a lightweight B cam to my Red for a shoot - so i need to intercut and i'll be finding it's comfort zones side by side with everything.

So far the best resolve post in in ACES. My fear with going into any 709 space is that the camera native spectral response will be outside of 709. All Sony sensors push red way out and it's easy to see with bright red subjects. If you don't debayer into a larger colourspace then those reds get clipped or mushed into gamut. I don't know enough about DNG support in Resolve but visually into ACES appears much better. The only other valid option i think is Linear in, certainly none of the BMD Presets as they're for very different sensors.
 

Cheers
Paul

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs
13 hours ago, mechanicalEYE said:

It does help a great deal in my opinion. 

Thanks Lars & mechanicalEYE

Yes, for some reason they're not in stock in the UK, so waiting on a backorder.

Even so, having a whacking great VF at the back kind of negates the beauty of such a small camera. More so for stills - i was hoping maybe it would replace my A7sII but not so sure now.

For cine use this would mostly be rigged onto things, especially as it is so light, so it's not so much of an issue. Might even be rigged for wireless video and FF.

cheers
Paul

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1 hour ago, Lars Steenhoff said:

Time to buy some ssd soon

 

I've been pushing and pulling the 8 bit DNGs in lightroom, comparing to 12 bit FHD and also Sony A7sII stills.

Whilst i can see the limits in the shadows, as there are no compression artefacts, then what you get is remarkably usable. Pushing something 5 stops over to compare shows the 8 bit DNGs really not that far from the Sony RAW and 12 bit versions. So i'm running to a 128GB SD Card (ProGrades) and have yet to really break the image.

This is less to do with the sensor and more to do with no compression. That's the key, compression kills everything.

So i don't know what you're planning on shooting at the moment i'm skewing towards 8 bit.

10 bit linear is no use whatsoever. 12 bit 24p would make a difference but i can't use 24p

As i mentioned above, if we users can drop sigma a line and show how much we want 10 bit DNG with a linearisation table then that would be the sweet spot and i would externally record. If we're lucky they could experiment with writing 10 bit to SD card as well... And maybe do some other frame sizes... (4096 DCI widescreen!)

cheers
Paul

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4 hours ago, paulinventome said:

Log profile is utterly irrelevant on this camera and it won't expand the dynamic range. You have the RAW output - you will never get better than that. This is the whole point of this camera...

Actually, it would be helpful if 10bit RAW was encoded as Log values (instead of linear values, as it is with the current firmware). Same actually with 12bit RAW, since the camera has a 14bit DAC...

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Yes it would be, and thats what we should ask sigma, Log for compressed video does not interest me as much.

But would love to be able to bake LUTs for compressed footage, for the quick turn around projects, to be able to grade them in camera. and those LUTs would apply to a log input better than without.

-So ok Log internal with a grading option of LUTs, and a log to linear table for the Raw.

-External recording to pro res raw does not interest me so much on this camera, but its good to have options.

 

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10 minutes ago, rawshooter said:

Actually, it would be helpful if 10bit RAW was encoded as Log values (instead of linear values, as it is with the current firmware). Same actually with 12bit RAW, since the camera has a 14bit DAC...

Yes, drop them a line and ask. That's what i mean. Doesn't have to be log, the values they choose can match the data better - it could be a log with an s curve to distribute mid tones better. We will never see that curve, we will only ever see the results after the curve.

Whilst the DAC is 14 bit i am pretty sure that the mode they are running the sensor in is 12 bit output for motion. And a 10 bit DNG with a linearisation table would hold everything a 12 bit linear file could - i see no reason for a 12 bit option at all.

I think 4096 across should be an option though, even if it's scope (4096 x 1716) or 2:1 (netflix style 4096 x 2048) - the overall data rate would be roughly the same as UHD.

 

1 minute ago, Lars Steenhoff said:

Yes it would be, and thats what we should ask sigma, Log for compressed video does not interest me as much.

But would love to be able to bake LUTs for compressed footage, for the quick turn around projects, to be able to grade them in camera.

I think a couple of wish list items. Yes, a user LUT to output baked formats would be useful in some cases.

But tools to expose for RAW better - i'm still trying to wrap my head around the zebra at 100% and what that actually means.

cheers
Paul

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6 hours ago, paulinventome said:

Nice find Lars.

Log profile is utterly irrelevant on this camera and it won't expand the dynamic range. You have the RAW output - you will never get better than that. This is the whole point of this camera...

RAW via HDMI is a nice idea.

cheers
Paul

It would be nice to have LOG if you ever wanted to shoot non RAW for a project that didn't require it. 

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On 11/18/2019 at 5:08 AM, Lars Steenhoff said:

I’m curious to know which SSDs will work with the camera; I know Sigma said only the Samsung T5’s greater than 250gb’s would be officially supported at this point, but I’m sure others can work.

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I read on amazon :

Read and write speeds of over 850 MBps, when connected to a Thunderbolt 3 or USB 3.1 Gen 2 port.

Over 40% faster read speeds and over 200% faster write speeds than leading SATA SSD external enclosures and USB 3.0 flash drives, make long wait times a thing of the past.

https://www.amazon.com/Protection-Enclosure-Innovative-Connecting-Thunderbolt/dp/B07Q7H5QLX

 

This is the big B meaning megabytes

your stating it in megabits

850 megabytes equals 6800 megabits

 

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