Canon EOS M6 Mark II 4K is "pixel binned 3K" and Sony A6600 old sensor debacle "due to internal politics"

[magicyang2]

On 9/1/2019 at 12:48 AM, frontfocus said:

No. 32MP with a 3:2 aspect ratio. At 16:9 you get 6960x3915=27MP. And this with a pixel binning results in 27/4=6.8MP which is not really 4K. 

It's not 4K but more like 3.6K. Don't know how the 2.8K is calculated. 

[ntblowz]

Someone really need to educate this guy that the M6 II is not oversampling from 6K!  Having said that the colour is pleasing though.

 

 

[Mako Sports]

31 minutes ago, ntblowz said:

Someone really need to educate this guy that the M6 II is not oversampling from 6K!  Having said that the colour is pleasing though.

 

 

that guy always has nice vids

[frontfocus]

4 hours ago, Dirk said:

There is a more compelling reason why Sony do not want / cannot fit their small bodied alpha 6 cameras with the IMX571 26 megapixel sensor.  The Fuji X-T30 with its 26 megapixel sensor has a huge over-heating problem  - that is why certain video modes are limited to 10 minutes. 

No, that's not a sensor thing. X-Trans is a lot harder on the CPU to demosaic and that's where most of the heat is coming from. It's a lot easier with Bayer Sensors. 
At the same time, I think the recording limit of the Fujifilm cameras is extremely conservative. I have shot the X-T3 in direct sunlight at a ambient temperature of over 30°C. Running 4K 60p I did two full recordings of 20minutes until I got the heat warning. After switching battery I did another 15 minutes. Didn't shut down either. 

Quote

it does look as though Sony's decision makes sense doesn't it?

no. To me it sounds like a bad excuse

[Mokara]

On 8/29/2019 at 5:26 PM, Cliff Totten said:

It is my understanding that Sony's 5k and 6k full pixel readout and scaling to 4k video...is dont at the A/D conversion level. The sensor does that proprietary scaling right on the sensor and feeds that final 4k image to whatever video processor your camera has.

Why does this matter? Because all of the readout and scaling engine is on the chip itself. Your image processor doesnt have to do that work!

Anybody who buys a Sony sensor has access to the scaling readout modes. So when Canon buys 1 inch Sony sensors,...bang!...they got Sony-style full pixel readout. Since Canon makes their own FF and APSC sensors,...they dont have that scaling engine onboard! Their DIGIC processor has to collect and scale that readout by itself!

CLEARLY.....Canon has NOT figured out how to do 4k with anything more than a 1:1 deBayer or a 1:1 assembly using binning or line skipping!!

Canon is literly 10 years behind Sony in sensor readout and image assembly mathematics!

My God....wow.

I think it is done with the LSI, not the sensor. That is the chip that processes the sensor output before it goes into the actual processor for compression. The sensor needs to do full readout without anything else because that is what is used for stills. So downscaling on sensor basically would make stills impossible.

[FS670ES]

I was hoping for Canon to bring something good but nope. Sony A6600 has weak 1080p which is a dealbreaker. Fuji x-t30 has some heat issues and no real object tracking so it's not perfect for family travel gimbal setup, also slow focusing f1.4 lenses. Now I am wondering if to move to Sony A7 III or to Nikon Z6. Any suggestions which is better for gimbal setup with AF ?

[digitalcassidy]

Andrew. I've been a loyal follower of yours for quite awhile and really enjoy what you bring to the photo community. Thank you!

I have the amazing Panasonic GH5s but have been tempted to purchase the Fuji XT 30. I keep hearing amazing things! BTW, I shoot lots of time-lapse and 4K video with the GH5s and it's quite impressive, but that Fuji is enticing... Thoughts?

Cheers,

MCassidy

[dr_jon]

I don't know about 2.8k upscaled but I have seen "3480 to 3840" upscaling mentioned, which is a 10% stretch. Also the maths works great, as it's every other pixel.

So I suspect they read all the pixels (as hard not to along a line) and scale them, they could read every other line but that would break bayer, so possibly the approach is that they read the whole (16:9 crop of the) sensor and just do the simplest scaling option of using 2x2 bayer blocks to make pixels and upscaling by 10-ish% to give 4k.

Note the 16:9 crop is 6960 x 3904, making 2x2 pixels gives 3480 x 1952, which is about 10% off 3840 x 2160.

Plus the sensor/processor combination in the M6II can do 30fps 18MP Raws with AF/AE until it runs out of buffer, so reading the whole 16:9 area at 30fps is certainly within the realm, or trivial if some video processing is done on-sensor, as is quite common (the 16:9 crop being 50% more pixels than 18MP).

 

[Avenger 2.0]

And now the new M200 (cropped) 4k has only 24p and no 25p/30p ?

[Michael Steiner]

49 minutes ago, Avenger 2.0 said:

And now the new M200 (cropped) 4k has only 24p and no 25p/30p ?

I thought you were joking but it‘s true. No 30p in UHD on the M200 but indeed 24p and (at least on european model) 25p. Crazy

[Cinegain]

Well, if for some reason, like cheap components, they can't technically squeeze out 4K30p, they can't really just call it a day at 25p if they want to sell it in a NTSC region as well. In typical Canon fashion though FHD/1080p goes up to 60p no problem, but here of course 24p has been omitted. ?

And don't get started with the '24p codec means more expensive!' xD . Why not leave all those 720p framerates either. Like who ever shoots 'HD Ready'?!

[hoodlum]

2 hours ago, Avenger 2.0 said:

And now the new M200 (cropped) 4k has only 24p and no 25p/30p ?

And a 10 minute recording limit as well.

[wolf33d]

4 hours ago, hoodlum said:

And a 10 minute recording limit as well.

Lol

[Mokara]

7 hours ago, Cinegain said:

Well, if for some reason, like cheap components, they can't technically squeeze out 4K30p, they can't really just call it a day at 25p if they want to sell it in a NTSC region as well. In typical Canon fashion though FHD/1080p goes up to 60p no problem, but here of course 24p has been omitted. ?

And don't get started with the '24p codec means more expensive!' xD . Why not leave all those 720p framerates either. Like who ever shoots 'HD Ready'?!

It is the same as the M50. This camera is basically the M50 hardware repackaged into a different form factor. So of course it has the same specs. Why is anyone surprised by that?

Really? Do people no longer pay attention before diving off the deep end of the conspiracy pool?