leeys Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 4 hours ago, Andrew Reid said: I don't think it is, although nobody knows for sure how they did it. You don't. I can only guess. Reverse engineering some electronic contacts isn't the same as infringing IP, is it? Nope, otherwise Sigma, Tamron, Tokina all would've been sued to kingdom come by now. Geoff CB 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mokara Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 23 hours ago, Andrew Reid said: I don't think it is, although nobody knows for sure how they did it. You don't. I can only guess. Reverse engineering some electronic contacts isn't the same as infringing IP, is it? The communication protocols themselves will be proprietary. Sony will have a method patent covering that. Unless for some reason their R&D department were incompetent and did not bother to protect the basic operation of their equipment. They would not file patents like that to make money, rather it would be to discourage third parties from sticking random things onto their equipment which might result in service calls because the electronics were not quite right. 19 hours ago, leeys said: Nope, otherwise Sigma, Tamron, Tokina all would've been sued to kingdom come by now. They would have license agreements with Sony to do that. It would have been in Sony's interests to have some partners in order to increase lens options for their products, not to mention the small royalty stream it would generate. Those extra lens options help them sell cameras, which is where they make most of their money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etudiant Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 Sony sells more lenses at Nikon's expense. Why is this a lawsuit worthy issue for Sony? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerocool22 Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 Zeiss milvus looks better then the batis, no? At least you get a manual aperture ring with the milvus lenses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted June 26, 2019 Administrators Share Posted June 26, 2019 18 hours ago, Mokara said: They would have license agreements with Sony to do that. It would have been in Sony's interests to have some partners in order to increase lens options for their products, not to mention the small royalty stream it would generate. Those extra lens options help them sell cameras, which is where they make most of their money. I doubt everyone who makes E-mount lenses have a royalties and licensing agreement with Sony!? Chinese companies in particular. 7Artisans? I doubt it. Reverse engineering some electronic contacts and then making a translator chip for your own adapter, I don't think is infringing on a patent. And Techart / Metabones don't ever seem to get trouble from the manufacturers they make adapters for. Techart already has a Canon EF to Fuji GFX mount Autofocus adapter for example, and they didn't get sued for lens mount license royalties. Infringing on a patent would be creating a camera with E-mount, and exact same protocols. An adapter is not the same thing, it's a mod, not a new camera. Patents and trademarks apply to specific articles. Geoff CB 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSMW Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 If I was not mid season and invested in Fuji, the Nikon Z6 would be my choice over the offerings from: Sony - handling issues for me, Canon, - no IBIS and Panny S1 - too big and the AF is a bit suspect. These adapters really open up options though don't they. Maybe next season for me, depends what Fuji do... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hijodeibn Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 Any idea if TechArt is working on the EF To Nikon Z Adapter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted June 26, 2019 Administrators Share Posted June 26, 2019 I've no idea but certainly interested to try the Sigma MC-11 on the E-mount to Z adapter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mokara Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 5 hours ago, Andrew Reid said: I doubt everyone who makes E-mount lenses have a royalties and licensing agreement with Sony!? Chinese companies in particular. 7Artisans? I doubt it. Reverse engineering some electronic contacts and then making a translator chip for your own adapter, I don't think is infringing on a patent. And Techart / Metabones don't ever seem to get trouble from the manufacturers they make adapters for. Techart already has a Canon EF to Fuji GFX mount Autofocus adapter for example, and they didn't get sued for lens mount license royalties. Infringing on a patent would be creating a camera with E-mount, and exact same protocols. An adapter is not the same thing, it's a mod, not a new camera. Patents and trademarks apply to specific articles. I know the Chinese companies don't bother, because there are no consequences for them. IP protection in China is very lax. That is the problem a lot of high tech companies have with that country. If Sony holds a method patent for communication between a lens and a camera (any lens and any camera, as long as it uses that protocol), any sort of reverse engineering involving that protocol is an infringement. Any court in a jurisdiction that enforces patent rights would rule it as an infringement if a complaint is made. Metabones operates out of first world countries and obviously have obtained a license. Otherwise they would not be able to do what they do. They would be shut down if they did not. Camera companies will do this to increase the lens ecosystem for their cameras, so you will see limited licenses being issued in some cases. They will be a lot more reluctant to increase the lens ecosystem for their competitors cameras however, or allow random manufacturers with unknown quality control access to their systems electronics. Canon EF is an old protocol dating back to 1987, any patents that were protecting it that would have long expired by now, which is why everyone uses it. That would not be the case with E-mounts, or any of the new mirrorless lens systems. Anyone who wants to make lenses based on them will require a licence from the camera manufacturer. This is why you will often find manual lenses for various mounts from low end lens manufacturers - they don't have licences, but they can still make the bayonet mount, just as long as it does not use the communication protocol. They could of course just ignore the patents (as these guys appear to be doing), especially if they are based in a jurisdiction that does not enforce IP ownership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted June 26, 2019 Administrators Share Posted June 26, 2019 I'm still not sure you can infringe a patent just by making something which attaches to something else and passes on a signal. That would rule out a lot of stuff, wouldn't it? Anyway, hopefully my Techart E-Z adapter arrives in 2-3 days, before the Nikony lawsuit does! webrunner5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Maze Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 This is very exciting for sure! I hope the AF performs well in video (however my Z6 needs some serious firmware updates to fix the Video AF as is with Z lenses) I'll order one as soon as I get paid next ? Being a gear reviewer is expensive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted June 29, 2019 Administrators Share Posted June 29, 2019 Tell me about it bro! I've got enough cameras to open a branch of B&H The Techart adapter has not quite landed yet.... It has however, actually shipped and is somewhere in Europe. Expected delivery date tomorrow Monday 1st July! Once the eagle has landed I'll report back on the EOSHD wire. BTM_Pix 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members BTM_Pix Posted June 29, 2019 Author Super Members Share Posted June 29, 2019 8 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said: Once the eagle has landed I'll report back on the EOSHD wire. Considering I don't own a Z camera to put it on, I'm really excited about this adapter ! If you confirm that it works when you stack the original E to M AF adapter on it then I might finally cave in and join the Z gang. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted June 29, 2019 Administrators Share Posted June 29, 2019 I think it was indeed designed with that other famous Techart in mind. I love that adapter. It's going to be quite a stack I have going on. E to Z, then M to E AF, then Canon FD to Leica M.... I use Leica M as my universal mount these days. Autofocus finally comes to Canon FD after all these years I can sell my EF lenses now! I have the Zeiss Batis lenses to try on it, the 25mm and 85mm are very nice. So the Minolta autofocus adapters from Sony might be interesting to see if the work. MC-11. What else to try? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members BTM_Pix Posted June 29, 2019 Author Super Members Share Posted June 29, 2019 5 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said: What else to try? Its a complete long shot but the Aputure EF to E electronic ND would be very interesting but I don't know anyone who's actually got one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 Somebody on here either has one, or had one for sale a few months ago?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSMW Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 18 hours ago, BTM_Pix said: Considering I don't own a Z camera to put it on, I'm really excited about this adapter ! If you confirm that it works when you stack the original E to M AF adapter on it then I might finally cave in and join the Z gang. Ha, me also. I came very close to buying a Z6 yesterday as the price with the f4 zoom was far lower than I thought and pretty cheap for what it is. But really, I'd want the new f2.8 but that's a 2k lens alone and so sanity prevailed when I took into consideration of chopping in my XT3 plus lenses etc. But that Techart...if it's up to snuff, well it opens up a lot of options so I'll be keeping an eye on it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 On 6/22/2019 at 4:33 AM, Bandido said: Would like to test this adapter on the NIkon Z6 with Atomos Ninja V (Apple Raw) and a Sony MK cinema lens. The Fuji MK E Mount lenses though are Super 35mm Need to wait for that Nikon Z DX camera! ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BasiliskFilm Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 Two things keep me from coming down on the Z side of the fence. Lens selection, which is probably years behind, especially when you consider decent value f2.8 zooms from Tamron. And AF performance for action photo/video. Maybe the solution is to get the Z6 with the Techart adaptor, Sony glass, and an APS-C Sony (A6400?) for the best of both worlds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil A Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 That adapter really makes me consider the Z6 even more, saw some great tests on YouTube. A store close by has a sale for Z6 + 24-70 f4 lens + Nikon F adapter + 64 GB XQD card for 1949$ and that’s silly cheap. I‘d sell my GH5 + Oly 12–40 for it and seeing how I lately do 90% pictures and 10% videos, I guess that would be a good deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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