Super Members BTM_Pix Posted June 18, 2020 Super Members Share Posted June 18, 2020 The downer about the M.2 caddy is that for some inexplicable reason it is $400. Comparative to the cost of the entire camera thats the sort of media housing price gouge that is worthy of a Jinnitech investigation ! Alt Shoo and tweak 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alt Shoo Posted June 18, 2020 Author Share Posted June 18, 2020 @BTM_Pix lol I thought the same thing too when I noticed the price of the caddy! My eyes literally bulged as i gasped. That caddy must hold the physical key to unlock pro Res lol. Certainly that’s an oversight JVC didn’t realize. Or did they? BTM_Pix 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 15 hours ago, Video Hummus said: I think it depends on the responses JVC got on their camera survey they sent out a while back. I hope they don't succumb to the same mistake Z Cam did in this situation, and JVC puts out a Global Shutter camera. sanveer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Sewell Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 1 hour ago, IronFilm said: I hope they don't succumb to the same mistake Z Cam did in this situation, and JVC puts out a Global Shutter camera. The day Z Cam brings out a global shutter S35 camera is the day I sell everything (including my children) to buy one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweak Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 1 hour ago, IronFilm said: I hope they don't succumb to the same mistake Z Cam did in this situation, and JVC puts out a Global Shutter camera. You mean you hope they do? No? Kinson has already mentioned that he believes it's a mistake that they released a global shutter camera at all as he said everyone says they wanted it then no one purchased it when they made one... I tend to agree, unless you can do it without the drawbacks over a similar sensor rolling shutter camera it's not worth it. Maybe one day it will be worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members BTM_Pix Posted June 19, 2020 Super Members Share Posted June 19, 2020 11 hours ago, Alt Shoo said: @BTM_Pix lol I thought the same thing too when I noticed the price of the caddy! My eyes literally bulged as i gasped. That caddy must hold the physical key to unlock pro Res lol. Certainly that’s an oversight JVC didn’t realize. Or did they? Yeah, its all about perception. The HC500 is £3100 so the caddy at £354 is more than 10% of the cost of the whole camera for what appears to be an M.2 to USB-C interface in a plastic case! But if they'd just made the camera £3400 and included the caddy then I don't think anyone would have batted an eyelid because its still great value for money. Separating it out like that just makes it seem like a colossal rip off. Alt Shoo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 28 minutes ago, Tim Sewell said: The day Z Cam brings out a global shutter S35 camera is the day I sell everything (including my children) to buy one! What if it is only the performance of a BMPC4K? (yes, the old Production 4K camera) And all it adds is putting it into the Z Cam E2-S6 body / form factor (but with the price too!). 18 minutes ago, tweak said: You mean you hope they do? No? Kinson has already mentioned that he believes it's a mistake that they released a global shutter camera at all as he said everyone says they wanted it then no one purchased it when they made one... I tend to agree, unless you can do it without the drawbacks over a similar sensor rolling shutter camera it's not worth it. Maybe one day it will be worth it. I hope JVC doesn't release a global shutter camera at the moment. As yes you are right, Kinson did say that, it was a mistake for them to release a global shutter Z Cam. As they got badly mislead by a small but vocal minority into believing "global shutter" is far more important than it really is. (and I was telling them this back then too! I was quite vocal myself in their discussions trying to be the voice of reason and being "anti global shutter") tweak 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alt Shoo Posted June 20, 2020 Author Share Posted June 20, 2020 21 hours ago, BTM_Pix said: Yeah, its all about perception. The HC500 is £3100 so the caddy at £354 is more than 10% of the cost of the whole camera for what appears to be an M.2 to USB-C interface in a plastic case! But if they'd just made the camera £3400 and included the caddy then I don't think anyone would have batted an eyelid because its still great value for money. Separating it out like that just makes it seem like a colossal rip off. Even if they didn’t include it but at least lower the price. I think it would be more acceptable if it was $150. Still I think using the M.2 format for storage is very forward thinking and you know they will implement that in a new cinema camera, if they ever decide to make one. @IronFilm I think global shutter cameras are good and RED are doing some things with the Komodo that should make this type of sensor more prominent. They squeezed out some DR with that global shutter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanveer Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 On 6/19/2020 at 2:35 PM, IronFilm said: I hope they don't succumb to the same mistake Z Cam did in this situation, and JVC puts out a Global Shutter camera. True. Even Phantom Cameras have a Rolling Shutter, with a Global Shutter switch. The dynamic range loss, low light issues and the image degradation must be pretty substantial. IronFilm and tweak 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrothersthre3 Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 Yeah high dynamic range, codec, and resolution are the selling points these days imho. In that order for me as well. If Zcam was able to make something like BRAW internally they'd be a huge competitor IMHO. IronFilm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 On 6/20/2020 at 8:25 PM, Alt Shoo said: @IronFilm I think global shutter cameras are good and RED are doing some things with the Komodo that should make this type of sensor more prominent. They squeezed out some DR with that global shutter. Global Shutter cameras have always been a compromise, sometimes really serious compromises. This is why it is no surprise that there is only currently just one professional grade cinema in widespread usage: the Sony PMW-F55 (plus the very niche Phantom). And you clearly do *not* need a global shutter to be widely successful, ARRI doesn't. Thus I don't want small startups with a promising future like Z Cam, to waste their precious limited resources on developing a camera which will be a flop such as their global shutter Z Cam E2-GS As for the RED Komodo, we all know RED has a very very long history of... should I say "lying"? Let's just say, "over promising" / being "hyperbolic" / "generously optimistic". Let's wait until we see Komodo available in stock at retail stores to buy, and has reviews from non-biased / non-censored reviewers. tweak and Video Hummus 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alt Shoo Posted June 25, 2020 Author Share Posted June 25, 2020 @IronFilm I definitely agree with you on a wait and see approach with the Komodo, but I believe global shutters are just going to get better with the proper development behind it. With companies like RED pushing this technology, it’ll certainly invite other big manufacturers to enter the foray. Tim Sewell 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkentwerps Posted July 22, 2020 Share Posted July 22, 2020 Hi fine folks of the film! I have been lurking on this thread for a while. I am in the market for some kind of cinema camera and stumbled upon the JVC-GYLS300, would it be okay to ask for your opinion? I found a guy locally who was selling his almost new for about 900 USD with all the bells and whistles (mic mount, charger, extra swit battery and Slr Magic lens), do you guys think it's still a good deal in 2020 at this price point vs similarly priced DSLRs? I was hesitating between this and something like a Sony A7S2 for the low light capability, or maybe the newer A6400 for the great autofocus. In addition to be able to shoot actual movies, I wanna be able to easily live stream without an additional cameraman. I know, different goals mean different cams... Can't have all at once! Oh and I noticed the JVC seems to have a very singular look. It seems kind of softer than some of these other cameras I mentioned but in a nice way. It kind of looks more old school, I don't know how to describe it. Also how do you find the 120fps slow mo quality with this thing? I heard it was not great for some reason. What do y'all think? There are so little reviews on the JVCs compared to Sony, Canon, Nikon etc...! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members BTM_Pix Posted July 22, 2020 Super Members Share Posted July 22, 2020 55 minutes ago, Sharkentwerps said: I found a guy locally who was selling his almost new for about 900 USD with all the bells and whistles (mic mount, charger, extra swit battery and Slr Magic lens), do you guys think it's still a good deal in 2020 at this price point vs similarly priced DSLRs? $900? Seriously, at that price, I'm tempted to say buy it first and then ask questions later. I can't see how even if you hated it that you'd not get all of that back re-selling it so at the very least you'd be able to have a free rental period of it in which to evaluate it. More to the point, you'd probably end up making money on it too. 56 minutes ago, Sharkentwerps said: I was hesitating between this and something like a Sony A7S2 for the low light capability, or maybe the newer A6400 for the great autofocus. In addition to be able to shoot actual movies, I wanna be able to easily live stream without an additional cameraman. I know, different goals mean different cams... Can't have all at once! With it being a video camera, it is a completely different beast to a mirrorless ILC or DSLR so just comparing on imaging capability alone isn't going to tell you the whole tale, which is why there is a scarcity of comparison videos around. Having said that, there is no question that it does not perform in low light like the A7sii or give you anywhere near the AF capability of something like the A6400. If those two aspects are critical for you then you should definitely look elsewhere as the LS300 won't satisfy either to the extent you are looking for. With regard to streaming, then, yes, it is ideal for that and can do it straight out of the box to YouTube etc with no problem. What you will be getting with the LS300 versus a DSLR is something that you can put to work straight away when you pull it out of the bag with no rigging, additional audio modules or adding ND etc. and it has tactile switches for primary functions so you don't have to go ploughing through menus. The choice of lens mount and the tricks behind it with the Variable Scale Mapping make the LS300 the most versatile camera out there and it is equally capable of being run with a tiny MFT pancake lens as it is with a cinema PL mount lens. Again, with it being a video camera as opposed to a stills camera that can take video, you also benefit from longer life batteries and it not turning into a hand warmer when it is running. The really big achilles heel with it though is the monitoring as the fold out LCD is just about adequate but the EVF is atrocious. However, there is a magic bullet to solve this in the form of the Atomos Ninja V. With the Ninja V, that issue goes away and you get all of the monitoring functionality you need, ProRes recording and the big bonus of it enabling you to use 4K60p so its pretty transformational for the LS300. So, in your case where you can get an LS300 for $900 then adding another $700 for the Ninja V gets you a bit of a powerhouse for $1600. Its all about the form factor though so none of that spec matters if you aren't comfortable with that. As a device of its type, I don't think you are going to do better for the money in terms of versatility than the LS300 and certainly not at the price you've been offered but if low light and AF and other aspects of DSLRs are important to you then there will be better bets for that overall $1600. Kisaha, PannySVHS and Sharkentwerps 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkentwerps Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 Thanks for the detailed reply, lots of good info there! Yeah this is definitely a tempting offer, I think I will go for it. Is it just me or the JVC image quality has a certain look to it too? 20 hours ago, BTM_Pix said: With the Ninja V, that issue goes away and you get all of the monitoring functionality you need, ProRes recording and the big bonus of it enabling you to use 4K60p so its pretty transformational for the LS300. So, in your case where you can get an LS300 for $900 then adding another $700 for the Ninja V gets you a bit of a powerhouse for $1600. I am undoubtedly super duper noob to this but 700$ for a monitor and an external SSD seems like a steep price, no? Would you know any cheap option to get that kind of prores, 10 bit color quality when recording externally? What if I monitored and recorded with separate devices? I don't mind not having the fanciest monitor, as long as it does the job, but it would certainly be cool to have 4K60p in prores/10 bit color (I am a bit confused about the difference tbh lol). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 1 hour ago, Sharkentwerps said: I am undoubtedly super duper noob to this but 700$ for a monitor and an external SSD seems like a steep price, no? Would you know any cheap option to get that kind of prores, 10 bit color quality when recording externally? What if I monitored and recorded with separate devices? It is not "just a monitor", but a 4K recorder too! The Ninja V is shockingly cheap for what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members BTM_Pix Posted July 23, 2020 Super Members Share Posted July 23, 2020 3 hours ago, Sharkentwerps said: I am undoubtedly super duper noob to this but 700$ for a monitor and an external SSD seems like a steep price, no? Would you know any cheap option to get that kind of prores, 10 bit color quality when recording externally? What if I monitored and recorded with separate devices? As @IronFilm has said, its a lot more than a monitor. Even just taking it as a monitoring tool though, it is going to improve those capabilities on virtually every camera that you put it on and not just the LS300 as there aren't many that offer false color, waveform, vectorscope, focus peaking and 2:1 zoom tools built in. It is also 1000 nits brightness so is perfectly viewable without a hood even in very, very bright daylight such as I'm using it in here when every other camera screen (notably the BM4K that I was also using that day) was absolutely useless. With the addition of the AtomX sync module, the Ninja V also enables wireless timecode sync which, whilst not necessarily important for your needs right now, could well be if you are working multi cam or with external audio. Something which isn't relevant to the LS300 but might well be if you move on to or add an additional camera is that the Ninja V can record ProRes RAW from a growing number of cameras by Nikon, Panasonic, Sigma and Z-Cam. So, although you will definitely get an instant hit of improvement when you use it with the LS300, I'd also look at it in more general terms of it being like a great lens or microphone that is going to improve every other camera you use it with on some level so can stay with you as you change cameras over the coming years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 46 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said: With the addition of the AtomX sync module, the Ninja V also enables wireless timecode sync which, whilst not necessarily important for your needs right now, could well be if you are working multi cam or with external audio. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1435435-REG/atomos_atomxsync1_modular_expansion_for_ninja.html Ah, it is finally in stock! Hadn't seen any discussions about it shipping, anybody used it yet? Is a pity there isn't a Samurai V! (like a Ninja V, but with SDI) As the "Samurai V" paired with an AtomX Sync module means you could get timecode stamped 4K files out of the Sony FS700 on the cheap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members BTM_Pix Posted July 23, 2020 Super Members Share Posted July 23, 2020 19 minutes ago, IronFilm said: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1435435-REG/atomos_atomxsync1_modular_expansion_for_ninja.html Ah, it is finally in stock! Hadn't seen any discussions about it shipping, anybody used it yet? I'm trying to work out whether this will work directly with the Zoom recorders that support UltraSync Blue or whether you need an actual UltraSync Blue box in the middle to do the translation ? I feel (hope !) it should be the former but the picture on the Atomos site is a bit ambiguous and suggests it might be the latter. I'm a bit bummed that they appear to have dropped the NDI AtomX module. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted July 23, 2020 Share Posted July 23, 2020 45 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said: I'm trying to work out whether this will work directly with the Zoom recorders that support UltraSync Blue or whether you need an actual UltraSync Blue box in the middle to do the translation ? Without even looking up to double check, then I'm easily 90% sure you need the UltraSync BLUE. (been strongly considering buying one myself lately, but for different reasons, to sync up Smartphone footage) BTW, did you know Atomos bought out Timecode Systems Ltd? I think/hope that is good news for TCS Ltd?? It was some time ago though, and they still haven't bought out any new products. Hmmmm.... I wonder if Atomos being the new owners is why Sound Devices isn't working together with TCS with their 8 Series to have integration like they did with the 6 Series? As an owner of both an 8 Series recorder and invested into the TCS Ltd ecosystem, this really annoys me! (doubly annoying that the ceased production of the TS-TCB Intellislate!) I was looking forward to having the same level integration/control that 6 Series users have. 52 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said: I'm a bit bummed that they appear to have dropped the NDI AtomX module. Bummer. Well if not even NDI is happening, then no chance they'll make a DANTE module! ha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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