MeanRevert Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 21 minutes ago, Amazeballs said: It's taking too long. Lots of ppl might jump tp XT4 or start thinking about going back to Canon. Panasonic should strike back sooner than that. And they need PDAF 😏 Could we really have 3 new cameras this year, all with flippy screens? This is the Jetsons future I imagined. IronFilm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Video Hummus Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 The competition in 2020 is finally caught up to the 2017 GH5. newfoundmass, anonim and IronFilm 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted February 15, 2020 Author Share Posted February 15, 2020 3 hours ago, Video Hummus said: The competition in 2020 is finally caught up to the 2017 GH5. If only the film-making ability of the average customer would catch up to the Super-16 cameras from the 70s! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 4 hours ago, Video Hummus said: The competition in 2020 is finally caught up to the 2017 GH5. Time for Panasonic to give us a GH6 in 2020 from 2023! 😉 Juank, anonim and sanveer 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy G Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 My gal and I have been doing our outdoor nature/birding shooting with my S1 and her G9 for the past several months now and it's clear to me how the G9 pretty much tops out at ISO 1600 vs the S1's ISO 6400 when it comes to retaining detail and acceptable (for our needs/desires) noise levels. (Would it be nice to have an MFT camera that can keep pace with the S1? Sure, I suppose we all have that now in the GH5S, but with the sacrifices that it can't shoot comparable MP stills to our current cameras and that it doesn't have that wonderful IBIS for Dual-IS.) So, in looking at the current state of sensor technology and the market's race towards 8K video capabilities, I'm left taking a wait-and-see approach to what the MFT sensor format might be able to accomplish regarding noise and ISO performance and thermal handling at the required 33.2MP (UHDTV2 8K) pixel density...and that would be just for a pixel-to-pixel "GH6S"! My personal belief is that MFT dead-ends (or will dead-end) at 8K. Ideally (well, to my sensibilities) I would like to see Panasonic offer up a true S35-sensor L-mount camera series to fit between their MFT and FF lineups, t'would solve a whole host of gaps and problems that I feel currently exist. Also, it would be a wet dream for me to have them offer up an all-in-one powered-zoom MFT body ala the FZ2000/2500 with the built-in ND filters that some folks are "clamoring for" as an added offering to their current interchangeable-lens MFT lineup. (A fella can dream, can't he?!) Also, after speaking with the Panasonic Reps back at October's PhotoPlus expo in NYC and having it explained to me that "the ASIC in my iPhone was more powerful that what was in their cameras" and that's why there was no way they could offer a firmware update enabling audio-recording to accompany their high-VFRs ("it's just not in there to be able to do that!") like the audio I can record while shooting Hummingbirds at 240FPS on my iPhone, I'd vote for more powerful and capable processors in the next cameras from them (no matter the sensor format!). Also, either offer a wider range ±5-Diopter for the EVF or sell us auxiliary Diopters to add to the EP (like, um Canon and Nikon)!... True physical/mechanical gimbal lock for the IBIS for shooting on sticks!... ROI focus-check zoom while shooting (unless I'm missing something obvious here)!... Flippy screens on all (FF) models! MFT 100-300mm f/4 Dual-IS Zoom! (C'mon now!) Um, "Pretty please?!" :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Video Hummus Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 A dual-gain, ~33.2ish MP, BSI sensor would solve most of your problems. I don’t think their is a need for a S35 camera from Panasonic. If they can push up to 6400 iso clean and 10,000 ISO useable that is more than enough for most people. Especially since we are getting better and better noise reduction for still shooters. I also think we are more likely to see 8K in an open gate 4:3 only offering. Which is fine by me. That would give you 8K anamorphic and 8K video to do a 4K 16:9 crop in however you like. They could also do something seriously cool with open gate 4:3 8K and advanced EIS for super smooth 4K or 1080p. That’s a lot of room to let the edges warp and keep the center 16:9 area crop steady. They have to do something special because the market is heating up and the FF frenzy is full swing. I actually think we are only going to see vague teasers this year for the GH6 to let people know it’s coming. But I think the release will be next year. Not sure there are any compelling enough 4:3 sensors from Sony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonim Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 14 hours ago, IronFilm said: (The competition in 2020 is finally caught up to the 2017 GH5.) - Time for Panasonic to give us a GH6 in 2020 from 2023! 😉 Just to mention that I noted it (sometimes I record for enjoy most perspicaciously witty comments when I'm faced with them :) Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted February 16, 2020 Author Share Posted February 16, 2020 9 hours ago, Jimmy G said: Also, after speaking with the Panasonic Reps back at October's PhotoPlus expo in NYC and having it explained to me that "the ASIC in my iPhone was more powerful that what was in their cameras" and that's why there was no way they could offer a firmware update enabling audio-recording to accompany their high-VFRs ("it's just not in there to be able to do that!") like the audio I can record while shooting Hummingbirds at 240FPS on my iPhone, I'd vote for more powerful and capable processors in the next cameras from them (no matter the sensor format!). Apple started with their computational photography strategy with the iPhone 5 (IIRC) by keeping the same resolution sensor but upping the image processor with each model, and being smarter with the data available as opposed to just scaling up the raw amount of data. This includes things like when you hit the shutter it takes multiple exposures, processes and combines them to improve colours and lowers noise, eliminates blinking, etc, then saves the resulting image. This is a change of thinking rather than a chip selection decision, and camera manufacturers are showing very little capacity to think differently. To illustrate this, this is a comparison of the philosophies from the early film days and now: Early film days: shoot what you want to see in the final output (one frame captured = one frame in output) apply image adjustments edit deliver strategy for gaining better output image quality is to improve the quality of the original image capture (DR, resolution, noise) Current "towards 8K" strategies: shoot what you want to see in the final output (one frame captured = one frame in output) apply image adjustments edit deliver strategy for gaining better output image quality is to improve the quality of the original image capture (DR, resolution, noise) There are basically no innovations that the major players have implemented - every innovation falls under the "acquire a better image" strategy. I wouldn't hold your breath for getting more horsepower than is needed to do the absolute minimum from the data coming off the sensor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami101 Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 The iPhones actually take the first image before you press the shutter (i.e. they’re constantly buffering). Android phones might do the same, I don’t know. kye, Juank and IronFilm 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 18 hours ago, Jimmy G said: Also, it would be a wet dream for me to have them offer up an all-in-one powered-zoom MFT body ala the FZ2000/2500 with the built-in ND filters that some folks are "clamoring for" as an added offering to their current interchangeable-lens MFT lineup. (A fella can dream, can't he?!) They'll likely update the DVX200 at some point??? Maybe. But at a much higher price of course than a FZ500 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Video Hummus Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 Would rather see internal ND on a MFT GH camera. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avenger 2.0 Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 13 minutes ago, Video Hummus said: Would rather see internal ND on a MFT GH camera. Why don't they make a MFT - EF speedbooster adaptor with ND filters like Canon did? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinegain Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 27 minutes ago, Avenger 2.0 said: Why don't they make a MFT - EF speedbooster adaptor with ND filters like Canon did? Exists (well, like Canon did it, so: not a focal reducer). Holy Manta, OWL, Fotodiox ND Throttle, Aputure DEC, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Video Hummus Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 Some interesting insight with this interview. https://m.dpreview.com/interviews/4997384936/panasonic-interview-if-we-stay-united-i-think-we-will-survive No 8K this year for Panasonic... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 1 hour ago, Video Hummus said: Some interesting insight with this interview. https://m.dpreview.com/interviews/4997384936/panasonic-interview-if-we-stay-united-i-think-we-will-survive Worthy quotable segments: Quote These days a lot of professional photographers are stepping into the videography area, and we want to support those photographers with the S1. Do you have any idea of how many S1 purchasers have paid for the SFU2 video firmware upgrade? The S1 outsells the S1R, and roughly speaking, probably 20-30% of S1 customers are purchasing the SFU2 for the upgraded video customers. Quote Where do you see the biggest opportunities for Panasonic, in the next few years? We believe that our video features are one or two steps ahead of our competitors, and we have an advantage there. For example, with the S1H which we released a few months ago, the sales performance is exceeding our original expectations. But the video performance of the S1H was designed to meet the needs of high-end videographers and cinematographers, so for amateur or hobby videographers, the S1H may be over-specced. We believe that what the market is telling us is that in the near future, all those video features should be available from high-end to enthusiast-level videographers. That’s the demand that we need to meet. Good to hear that the S1H sales are exceeding their expectations! (I wonder if the $99/week rental of the S1H was a signal of slow sales, I guess not!) Also was surprised that up to nearly a THIRD of S1 buyers are also getting the paid firmware upgrade! Interesting comments at the end about the hypothetical possibility of Ricoh/Pentax joining the L Mount system. Quote Panasonic knows how to make great video cameras, and the videography market is clearly of key importance to the company. What's most encouraging from talking to Mr. Yamane is that he believes great video should be available throughout his company's product lineup - not simply in the flagship products. Juank and Grimor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Video Hummus Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 3 minutes ago, IronFilm said: “We believe that what the market is telling us is that in the near future, all those video features should be available from high-end to enthusiast-level videographers. That’s the demand that we need to meet.” This is kinda what Panasonic has done for awhile now. Especially with the GH5. This maybe brings clarity to the G9 firmware bomb they dropped. IronFilm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avenger 2.0 Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 7 hours ago, Video Hummus said: Some interesting insight with this interview. https://m.dpreview.com/interviews/4997384936/panasonic-interview-if-we-stay-united-i-think-we-will-survive No 8K this year for Panasonic... Guess there aren't even any Sony image sensors at the moment that have 8K. Any 8K camera that isn't in production yet will be atleast a year wait from now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanveer Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 9 hours ago, Video Hummus said: Some interesting insight with this interview. https://m.dpreview.com/interviews/4997384936/panasonic-interview-if-we-stay-united-i-think-we-will-survive No 8K this year for Panasonic... "How has your relationship with Sigma and Leica evolved over the course of your alliance? We meet periodically to [maintain] our relationship, and right now we’re discussing how to expand the L-mount system. We need some new ideas to expand the system to a wider variety of customers. We cannot disclose details, but [at the moment] we’re discussing changes to the communication protocol between the cameras and lenses." Hopefully this means 2 things: 1. The possibility of installing larger sensors than M43, in M43 bodies (ala JVC LS300), with probably IBiS too. 2. The possibility of ToF and other AF assist sensors on the camera/and lenses to completely circumvent the need for PDAF. The electronic contact points on ILCs need to move to this Century. It needs a complete overhaul in design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amazeballs Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 They need to sort out their AF on all of their upcoming cameras, or they will fail. That should be like number #1 priority to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonim Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 "We believe that what the market is telling us is that in the near future, all those video features should be available from high-end to enthusiast-level videographers." What a pathetic rhetoric to say: "Market = price. We can't survive with such autistic price race. There's not so much wealthy retirees, rich daddies sons and hype specs hunters as we expected... sadly L-ogic of such annoying number of buyers is not yet in FF-Bokeh stadium nor ready to be suffocated in our L-mount necessity... We are forced to go back to old G position (of logical quality/price ratio)." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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