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Andrew Reid

Shooting with the Panasonic S1 in Barcelona

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2 hours ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

Looks like the bees knees tbh. Can it hold up in backlit situations and how good is it in low light. 

Seems to be a big improvement over the version .6 firmware test. We will know for sure when the final production models come out. Overall I think it's an interesting camera, but I'm taking a wait and see approach until more reviews are in. 

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you seemed to be slating it a few pages back but I agree let's wait and see how it unfolds, I think there is potential for a decent camera here especially if they can get the AF up to speed 

On 2/2/2019 at 6:07 PM, mercer said:

Yeah, this is pretty uninspired. Other than the 4K 60p and no crop, the EOS-R is more interesting.

Boring.

4k 60p and no crop are a pretty big deal for many folk, and with full v-log coming later, the DR could be very impressive. What makes the EOS-R more interesting, genuine question? The EOS-RP looks the more interesting Canon offering to me (for video anyway) if the specs are as reported although the new R lenses are not exactly aimed at the same budget end

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Have you guys seen the head to head shootout between this S1 and the Z6? As you all know, the IMX410 is used in the A7-III and Z6. Many expected the S1 to be another IMX410 camera. However!....the head to head comparison shows the S1 kicking the crap out of the IMX410 in signal to noise ratio!

What "mystery" sensor is the S1 using? Who fabs this beast? Who's technology is inside this S1 sensor? SAMSUNG ISOCEL???

No wonder why Sony has taken so long to make the A7S-III. If this S1 is not using a Sony sensor, then Sony truly has no control over the S1. No licensing agreements and no restrictions on a Sony contract of sale! If its a Samsung chip, Panny is free to implement it in any way they want.

Could this S1 mystery sensor be the FIRST chip to pierce Sony SemiConductor's armor? Could this be the FIRST chip to beat Sony's EXMOR BSI performance limitations?

If this is not a Sony sensor. I'd bet my life that Sony preordered 20 of these S1 for disassembly and inspection. You better believe Sony labs will be X-raying and plotting out the entire foundry of that S1 chip and using electron microscopes to see how this mystery fab plant made this thing!

If this is not a Sony sensor....I'm certain this one has them VERY worried!

When Tech Insights gets the S1, its going to be facinating when they identify that chip!

CT

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2 minutes ago, Cliff Totten said:

Have you guys seen the head to head shootout between this S1 and the Z6? As you all know, the IMX410 is used in the A7-III and Z6. Many expected the S1 to be another IMX410 camera. However!....the head to head comparison shows the S1 kicking the crap out of the IMX410 in signal to noise ratio!

What "mystery" sensor is the S1 using? Who fabs this beast? Who's technology is inside this S1 sensor? SAMSUNG ISOCEL???

No wonder why Sony has taken so long to make the A7S-III. If this S1 is not using a Sony sensor, then Sony truly has no control over the S1. No licensing agreements and no restrictions on a Sony contract of sale! If its a Samsung chip, Panny is free to implement it in any way they want.

Could this S1 mystery sensor be the FIRST chip to pierce Sony SemiConductor's armor? Could this be the FIRST chip to beat Sony's EXMOR BSI performance limitations?

If this is not a Sony sensor. I'd bet my life that Sony preordered 20 of these S1 for disassembly and inspection. You better believe Sony labs will be X-raying the foundry of that S1 chip and useing electron microscopes to see how this mystery fab plant made this thing!

If this is not a Sony sensor....I'm certain this obe has them VERY worried!

When Tech Insights gets the S1, its going to be facinating when they identify that chip!

CT

I think its just a newer Sony sensor. Could be wrong of course. 

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I doubt its TowerJazz. Has anybody ever seen an excellent TowerJazz sensor? Definetely not the one in that Leica, scratch that one out.....any other TowerJazz sensors we can point too?

Samsung IsoCell would stiil be a sensor that Panny would want to keep secret....no doubt.

I dont know of any other company that could actually beat Sony's pattents....I think only Samsung could do that.

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6 hours ago, ade towell said:

4k 60p and no crop are a pretty big deal for many folk, and with full v-log coming later, the DR could be very impressive. What makes the EOS-R more interesting, genuine question? The EOS-RP looks the more interesting Canon offering to me (for video anyway) if the specs are as reported although the new R lenses are not exactly aimed at the same budget end

Well... the R has a beefier all-i codec. It has a Log profile without an added cost. It has the variable ND adapter option for EF lenses. It has a cheaper lens collection that will have an almost full lens selection by the end of this year. It has better AF. It has that sensor cover for changing lenses.

I forgot to add that the IBIS is a positive for the S1.

With that being said, I didn’t post that comment to create a debate between the EOS-R and the S1. I’ve never used either camera but for my needs I find the EOS-R to be more interesting but it still wasn’t interesting enough for me to buy but the RP could be an option when all the details are revealed. There was a hint it may have IBIS. If it has Canon Log and IBIS and is $1500 or less, I may be a buyer.

And with that being said, I’m sure the S1 will be a fine camera... Panasonic rarely releases a turd. 

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3 minutes ago, mercer said:

Well... the R has a beefier all-i codec. It has a Log profile without an added cost. It has the variable ND adapter option for EF lenses. It has a cheaper lens collection that will have an almost full lens selection by the end of this year. It has better AF. It has that sensor cover for changing lenses.

I forgot to add that the IBIS is a positive for the S1.

With that being said, I didn’t post that comment to create a debate between the EOS-R and the S1. I’ve never used either camera but for my needs I find the EOS-R to be more interesting but it still wasn’t interesting enough for me to buy but the RP could be an option when all the details are revealed. There was a hint it may have IBIS. If it has Canon Log and IBIS and is $1500 or less, I may be a buyer.

And with that being said, I’m sure the S1 will be a fine camera... Panasonic rarely releases a turd. 

I doubt the RP will have IBIS. Dual IBIS is kind of a big feature. Though like you said the lenses are crazy expensive. If Panasonic can manage to close the auto focus gap with AI tech, that would definitely be a stick in Canon's side. Low light performance and full frame 4k are also big advantages over Canon as well as 4k 60p. Will be interesting to see how things go this year. AI tech definitely seemed to be part of the new Sony A6400 auto focus though of course Sony auto focus was already really good. 

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1 hour ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

I doubt the RP will have IBIS. Dual IBIS is kind of a big feature. Though like you said the lenses are crazy expensive. If Panasonic can manage to close the auto focus gap with AI tech, that would definitely be a stick in Canon's side. Low light performance and full frame 4k are also big advantages over Canon as well as 4k 60p. Will be interesting to see how things go this year. AI tech definitely seemed to be part of the new Sony A6400 auto focus though of course Sony auto focus was already really good. 

It’s all relative. I don’t need FF 4K up to 60p at a low bitrate with paid upgrades. I don’t need a questionable AF system. I don’t need a camera that has possible overheating issues.

But when I do decide to get another camera, I would like IBIS and I’d like to use my existing EF lenses with a dependable AF system... hopefully Canon offers all of these features in an upcoming model.

But again, my original comment was just a statement against all recent camera releases. They’re just boring. Until these cameras offer internal/external Raw/ProRes they seem to be minor upgrades where picking your poison out of a hat is a valid reason to choose one over the other... or base it on the lenses you already own. 

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15 minutes ago, mercer said:

It’s all relative. I don’t need FF 4K up to 60p at a low bitrate with paid upgrades. I don’t need a questionable AF system. I don’t need a camera that has possible overheating issues.

But when I do decide to get another camera, I would like IBIS and I’d like to use my existing EF lenses with a dependable AF system... hopefully Canon offers all of these features in an upcoming model.

But again, my original comment was just a statement against all recent camera releases. They’re just boring. Until these cameras offer internal/external Raw/ProRes they seem to be minor upgrades where picking your poison out of a hat is a valid reason to choose one over the other... or base it on the lenses you already own. 

Do you need 4K at all?

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2 minutes ago, liork said:

Do you need 4K at all?

Nope. I’m just a hobbyist that has nobody to answer to. I shoot 1080p Raw because I like the image and it’s more than enough to quench my hobby projects.

I was just discussing the difference between needs and wants. Interesting topic but would probably stop all of this gear lust in its tracks.

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https://fstoppers.com/originals/micro-four-thirds-versus-full-frame-how-much-heavier-panasonics-s1-336236

 

"Now that Panasonic are entering the full-frame mirrorless market, they’ve created the heaviest camera of the bunch. The S1 weighs 2.25 pounds, with the S1R weighing basically the same at 2.24 pounds. Out of the competition, it’s only the Sony a9 that comes close with 1.48 pounds. All of this is with the battery inside the camera. Here’s a breakdown:

Nikon Z 6: 1.29 pounds

Canon EOS R: 1.45 pounds

Sony a7S II: 1.38 pounds

Sony a9: 1.48 pounds

Panasonic GH5: 1.59 pounds

Panasonic S1: 2.25 pounds

Panasonic S1R: 2.24 pounds"

 

 

Weight of the GH5 vs the S1:

"Panasonic GH5

GH5 with a battery inside: 1.59 pounds

Lumix 12-35mm f/2.8 - 0.67 pounds

Lumix 35-100mm f/2.8 - 0.78 pounds

X5 batteries at 0.2 pounds each - 1 pounds

Total: 4.04 pounds

Panasonic S1

S1 with a battery inside - 2.25 pounds

Lumix S 24-105mm f/4 (kit lens) - 1.50 pounds

Lumix S PRO 70-200mm f/4 - 2.17 pounds

X5 batteries at (guessing) 0.3 lb each - 1.5 pounds

Total: 7.72 pounds"

 

I remember Chris Nicols of DPReview mentioning that it was heavy, especially when he wasn't using it and only carrying it around.

In comparison, the humble Fuji XT3 weighs in at 1.188 pounds.

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On 2/11/2019 at 8:12 AM, sanveer said:

I remember Chris Nicols of DPReview mentioning that it was heavy, especially when he wasn't using it and only carrying it around.

In comparison, the humble Fuji XT3 weighs in at 1.188 pounds.

I didn't mind the weight of the body when using it in Barcelona.

It's in the D750 ballpark for weight, not the D5!

It's the lenses that add the most weight when it comes to full frame.

The 24-105 zoom was pretty light and 50mm large but not too bad weight wise.

Panasonic could maybe have shaved 200g off the body but when using a heavy Sigma ART lens on it via a Canon adapter, I doubt this would be noticeable.

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Thats damn good getting close to Ursa Mini territory. I am not sure they will get more dynamic range in V-log then HLG though. If Vlog does indeed capture more dynamic range I doubt it'll be more than a stop more. 12.6 stops like the URSA would be amazing. 

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12 hours ago, ntblowz said:

C5D test the DR on S1

with HLG it got 12.2 stops, Cine-D got 10.8 stops, so hopefully with full vlog it get 14dr

 

https://www.cinema5d.com/panasonic-lumix-s1-review/

 

 

DR-Panasonic-S1-HEVC-HLG-ISO-400--640x360.jpg

Maybe I'm a noob, but it doesn't look to me like the leftmost square for the S1 was exposed as brightly as all the other test examples.  If exposure had been pushed another stop or more, the dark end and noise floor maybe have fared better.

Did they not want it to beat the Ursa?  Conspiracy theorists want to know...   But seriously, I'm curious if anyone has experience with these test charts.

[EDIT]  I checked their waveform plots for the S1 and Ursa, and they look similar for the left box, so it may just be grading anomaly, but I'm still suspicious....  😄

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