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Kisaha

"Where Canon is going with the R series?" - IR exclusive interview

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30 minutes ago, Django said:

Well competition is healthy so I'm all for it.. but you can bet 1DX3 will be no slouch in the video department either. It may be their final 1DX DSLR and they'll give it everything. Especially with the Tokyo 2020 Olympic spotlights around the corner.

As for Nikon going "hog wild on the video side"..yes and no. All they've done so far is hand over the keys to their HDMI protocol to Atomos. Fuji did it internal on their own.

You'll need to go external for Log & ProRes Raw on the Z. Internally its really an A73 (they share the same sensor) with nicer body & color science but with worst AF & no log.

Like I said earlier elsewhere though, I'm more concerned with lens line-up when looking at a system and the ecosystem when looking at video.

In both cases, whether in current Native/Cine glass or cine bodies upgrade paths.. I see Canon/Sony with a clear advantage over Fuji/Nikon.

I both agree and disagree with you!

Most of your points are valid. The Z video performance is being exaggerated a bit, it is a good move from Nikon though, certainly in the right direction.

But when Nikon/Fuji have no expensive line ups to protect then they can go all in and produce the best of both worlds. Black Magic also, but from the opposite side, a video camera that eventually will provide great stills. A holographic imager maybe(per Star Trek!).

I bet we haven't seen the hybrid that will determine the next generation of hybrids, yet. Not in form factor, not even in specs. Maybe 3-5 📷 generations from now, we will shoot 8-16K video, and then choose pictures from there.

There will always be highly specialized items, but for the rest, hybrid machines will be enough for most pros. Already are in a way, but in-build e-ND could bring us much closer!

 

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs
3 hours ago, Django said:

Well competition is healthy so I'm all for it.. but you can bet 1DX3 will be no slouch in the video department either. It may be their final 1DX DSLR and they'll give it everything. Especially with the Tokyo 2020 Olympic spotlights around the corner.

As for Nikon going "hog wild on the video side"..yes and no. All they've done so far is hand over the keys to their HDMI protocol to Atomos. Fuji did it internal on their own.

You'll need to go external for Log & ProRes Raw on the Z. Internally its really an A73 (they share the same sensor) with nicer body & color science but with worst AF & no log.

First, the NIKON Z6 AND SONY A73 DO NOT SHARE THE SAME SENSOR. Nikon has their own engineering department and designed the sensors in the Z series to their own specs. They outsourced the manufacturing to Sony. 

As for Nikon only handing over the keys to their HDMI protocol... well that's selling Nikon short imo. Let's not forget that the entire new Z-mount lens series is specifically designed to work well for video.  The lenses all operate near silent... and all have minimal focus breathing. Even the just announced 14-30mm F4 is designed with a flat front, so that it can be fitted with ND filters for video use. 

Nikon is building a video friendly system... not just a single video friendly body. I believe this is hugely important for many of us here in this community. 

As for the 1DXMK3, I know it will be amazing for stills,  and the video will look great out of it. But it's hard for me to imagine Canon not pulling a Canon again... I hope I'm wrong.

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@DBounce

I've heard from several sources now both A7III & Z6 share the Sony IMX410 sensor ( @androidlad stated they even share exact same RS).

This isn't a bad thing, quite the opposite as Sony makes some of the best sensors. Of course Nikon tweak them to their specs. Fuji do the same.

Canon are stubborn and like to develop in-house (perhaps afraid their DPAF tech leaks out if they went to Sony) and this results in serious sensor tech lag.

The Z-mount S lens series I'm not that impressed with, including the new $1300 14-30 F4. That's quite overpriced for such slow zoom.

Canon's drop-in NDs are much more elegant solution imo (both in legacy zooms & now via the EF RF vari ND adapter):

canon-drop-in-filters.jpg

Nikon's silent AF & low focus breathing architecture are certainly nice but nowhere near Canon's CN-E line or Fuji's MK cine zoom series for serious film makers.

Don't get me wrong Nikon are doing big things but they still have lot's of catching up to do to seriously compete with Canon, Sony, Panny or even Fuji on all-around video as an ecosystem/platform imo. 

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6 hours ago, Django said:Nikon's silent AF & low focus breathing architecture are certainly nice but nowhere near Canon's CN-E line or Fuji's MK cine zoom series for serious film makers.

 

 

Tbf you can adapt the CNEs to any mirrorless lens mount.

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Yeah you probably can but good luck getting these features working from their servo cine zoom series:

Auto focus function (Continuous AF, One-Shot AF, Focus Guide)

Image Stabilization

Remote control of zoom, focus and iris via camera

REC start/stop from ZSG-C10 Grip

Peripheral illumination correction

Chromatic aberration correction

Lens metadata record

T-stop/F-stop number display select

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7 hours ago, Mako Sports said:

Tbf you can adapt the CNEs to any mirrorless lens mount.

Haven't thought of it, buying a 18-80, you can put it in everything with an adapter? And what about the electronics and stabilization?

@Django I love the cheap CN-E, but it is bogus, at least, to call the 14-30mm expensive (while the Sony 16-35 is more expensive) and the cheap CN-Es are 10.000€ for the 2 (18-80 & 70-200) while in reality they are more an advanced and improved EF version, than real cine lenses.

And the MK lenses, have no electronics inside whatsoever, which is sad, and unpractical, at least.

These are reasons that Sony dominates the video market these days, offering ultra cheap 18-110mm video optimized lenses that fit ALL their cameras, and while in reality they are worst than the aforementioned lenses, overal they are a best buy choice, matching well their FS cameras.

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I usually rent when it comes to cine glass.. in that perspective the CN-E glass is a lot more widespread than the Nikkor which is virtually non-existent at rental houses.

For sure the FS7+18-110mm is the standard rental kit we often use at work.. not much mojo though, i wouldn't use that for my personal / more artistic work.

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5 hours ago, Kisaha said:

And the MK lenses, have no electronics inside whatsoever, which is sad, and unpractical, at least.

One correction, the MK lenses do indeed have electronics. They transmit lens data to Fuji bodies. And they are great lenses for the money.  

Still,  this idea that Nikon is really not embracing video is way off. On the contrary, I commend Nikon for their new approach to both video and firmware updates. They are on the right path. 

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Just to be clear no one said they are not "embracing video" or that they aren't on the right path. They just still have a lot of catching up to do imo before being serious alternatives to Sony, Canon, Panasonic or Fuji. I applaud their effort but Fuji (a much smaller company with virtually zero background in video) gave the XT2 internal log & 120FPS via firmware update. XT3 can do 4K60p, 10-bit internal, DCI4K/2K etc. They made the MK series on X mount. That's what i call serious development. Nikon are certainly on the right path but it still remains to be proven how far they'll go i.e put internal Log/Raw, fix their AF issues, give DCI4K/2K, develop 100% cine lenses, maybe even consider a dedicated video camera.. 

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57 minutes ago, Django said:

Just to be clear no one said they are not "embracing video" or that they aren't on the right path. They just still have a lot of catching up to do imo before being serious alternatives to Sony, Canon, Panasonic or Fuji. I applaud their effort but Fuji (a much smaller company with virtually zero background in video) gave the XT2 internal log & 120FPS via firmware update. XT3 can do 4K60p, 10-bit internal, DCI4K/2K etc. They made the MK series on X mount. That's what i call serious development. Nikon are certainly on the right path but it still remains to be proven how far they'll go i.e put internal Log/Raw, fix their AF issues, give DCI4K/2K, develop 100% cine lenses, maybe even consider a dedicated video camera.. 

"Zero background in video"?

The Arri zoom lenses are Fuji.

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Right I meant in video camera bodies.

With no cine (body) line to protect they are in unique position  (as are Nikon) to implement features pros want that are usually kept for the more expensive cine market..

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Fuji used to make very handsome cine cameras.

If they did move back into dedicated motion cameras, carried on their retro styling cues of the stills range and put the X-T3 internals in this then I suspect many people would wet their pants.

I'd be one of them ;)

ops006323a.jpg.249250adf99ca902f578fd1b82f9d9b8.jpg

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For sure i'd go nuts if that were to happen (mini compact Super35 cine cam with 16mm bolex style hand grip design housing extra battery, XT3 sensor, XH1s IBIS & X100s NDs). Made in Japan. Please Fuji!

Who knows, they did revive their medium-format system out of thin air..

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51 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

Fuji used to make very handsome cine cameras.

If they did move back into dedicated motion cameras, carried on their retro styling cues of the stills range and put the X-T3 internals in this then I suspect many people would wet their pants.

I'd be one of them ;)

ops006323a.jpg.249250adf99ca902f578fd1b82f9d9b8.jpg

Haha, Fuji’s Single 8 (I believe it was called) or their failed attempt as an answer to Super 8. I think I have one of those cameras in storage.

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5 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Fuji used to make very handsome cine cameras.

If they did move back into dedicated motion cameras, carried on their retro styling cues of the stills range and put the X-T3 internals in this then I suspect many people would wet their pants.

I'd be one of them ;)

ops006323a.jpg.249250adf99ca902f578fd1b82f9d9b8.jpg

I'd buy almost instantly.

Why has no one done something like this properly? Add a little (4-5inch) flippy screen, option for hand grip on or off and it would be amazing. Could even do a nice EVF (GH5 spec or better) in the back.

I'm sure if any company even did a decent attempt at this they would cash in.

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