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bluefonia

G80/85 - camera noise renders recorded sound useless

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Is this a common issue on this camera or is my copy faulty?

 When the camera is turned on there is an internal noise coming frominside the camera. Sounds like a fan. (Well, I know there is not a fan inside, so just to describe the sound.) It is not audible until your place the camera close to your ear, but it is very audible in the recorded sound and makes it useless.

I thought maybe the IBIS could cause the noise, but it is still there if I turn off all stabilization. Firmware seems up to date - 1.3.

It is a used G80, - but only six month old - which I received and tested today. I have - and have had for several years - a GH4 and a G6 and none of them makes this noise. 

Any help will be much appreciated 

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Yes, did some research myself too and that noise seems to be a known issue. Wonder why that noise is not mentioned in any of the reviews I have read - even here on eoshd.

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Only IBIS is a little bit noticeable in a silent room.

Well, I don't know how your hearing is, but that noise is a constant hiss in the background. No offence meant by the way.

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But will be completly quite when turned off, so perhaps it is a faulty unit. 

Do you know that from personal experience?  My research seems to indicate the opposite - the noise remains though IBIS is turned off. I even talked to a guy from Panasonic support. He was not an expert on the G80 though. Could be a faulty unit of course,  but unfortunately I doubt it.

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Not a problem for most users.

Maybe, - but not me

I made my living for more than 15 years in audio postproduction and video/filmproduction. Although that is quite some years ago now, I know quite a bit about and used external mics, preamps; Nagra´s and so on.. These days I make films for my own pleasure - no dialogues, cleansounds only - and want to keep equipment at a minimum and I have managed to get pretty good audio directly from my G6 and GH4 - especially after some treatment in post production 🙂.

By the way: Running a quick test it seems that in post Izotope RX can remove some - if not most - of the hiss without too many artifacts. 

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Yes, my G80 has noise breakthrough from the IBIS system onto the sound from the internal mics, and no, turning off stabilisation doesn't remove it (because the sensor has to be held in position by the IBIS system, even if it isn't dynamically moving it for shake reduction). The GX80 has the same issue - I own that as well, in addition to a G6.

Just use an external mic - I use a Tascam TM-2X (it's powered by plugin power, so no batteries or on/off switch to worry about), inexpensive, reasonably compact and it seems to work well with the G80 - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Tascam-TM-2X-High-quality-microphone-digital/dp/B00FAC3KPK

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If you want to avoid recording the noise then maybe the solution is an external microphone.  

A previous conversation about how to use an external mic while keeping the setup very compact yielded these insights...

Using a Rode Video Micro you can either mount it above the camera in the traditional way like this:

IMG_1689.thumb.jpg.f918ff124adc4026985a3f2df5e5e1c5.jpg

Or on a flash bracket by the side of the camera:

IMG_1693.thumb.jpg.dd925c0d3a4d686966ba170740066f48.jpgIMG_1695.thumb.jpg.0cc78bdf723679512db86610f422d053.jpg

or @Don Kotlos took it one step further and used velcro to attach it to the body of the camera itself:

IMG_20161106_130534.jpg

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I've never noticed this but I've also never actually shot anything without an external mic! Like others have said I'd go with an external mic. It should eliminate this problem and you'll get better audio even when using some of the more affordable mics out there. 

I suggest the Movo or Boya (I believe they're the same mic) knockoff of the Rode Video Micro. It's $40 on Amazon and from what I've heard it is as good, and maybe even better, than the Micro, which is an excellent mic.

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I also own both the GX85 and G85. The noise is certainly more noticeable on the G85, but I've not noticed the noise come through the internal microphones. I don't shoot professionally though, so I'm not very picky about such things.

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35 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Get the mic off the camera! Which is where it should be, not on the camera itself

You're assuming that he sound quality gained would be more valuable than the compromises it would require, like size, ease of use, weight, attention from others, etc.

On commercial sets these things aren't normally considerations, but are for others.

@bluefonia said "These days I make films for my own pleasure - no dialogues, cleansounds only - and want to keep equipment at a minimum" so adding a boom doesn't seem to be sensible.

I investigated buying a stereo mic, or making some kind of mid-side setup, but in testing the internal mics in my cameras I found them to be fine for stereo recording, so I just use a Rode shotgun mic and if I want ambience I record using the internal mics on the camera.

If you buy a Rode Video Micro (or cheap equivalent) then you'll be reduced to mono sound.  I have thought previously that you could combine a stereo splitter adapter and plug in two of these mics and angle them in an X-Y configuration to get a stereo signal, like this:

XY-v3-650x625.jpg

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1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

Get the mic off the camera! Which is where it should be, not on the camera itself. 

Will also as a bonus do great wonders in reducing noise picked up from the camera itself. 

While I generally agree, there are many circumstances where doing this is inconvenient. 

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Hey everybody - thanks for all your feedback :-).

I know I can avoid the noise using an external mic. The thing is I don´t want to log around with external gear for the kind of films I'm making with the G80. It is just me, the camera and a couple of lenses - most of the time only one lens. Just a fly on the wall.

I was - and still am - just very surprised that you - read Panasonic in this case - release a camera aimed at video/film with such an issue. I know this is not a high end camera, but that is no excuse in my view. We all know the quality of sound will not be top notch with build in mics the size of a needle head and preamps not much bigger, but recorded noise/hiss generated from the unit itself is a no go imo. Well, it would be okay if Panasonic honestly have said: "We made a camera with good IBIS. The price for this is some noise when using the build in mic. If you want the best sound from this camera, use an external mic" . Then you would know what to expect.

I have attached a short snippet of sound. Just me walking around in my kitchen and small talking to myself while testing the G80. If my kitchen had that kind of background noise I would go crazy 🙂

G80 noise.mp3

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I remember the IS on my Canon 55-250mm zoom making a noise like a tiny turbine winding up every time you half-pressed the shutter.  I don't know if the internal mics picked it up, but it was quite audible when using the camera, at least in some situations.  It is surprising that the noise in your G80 remains when the IBIS is turned off though.  If it's a software problem, perhaps resetting to factory defaults or updating the firmware might resolve the issue?

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5 hours ago, kye said:

It is surprising that the noise in your G80 remains when the IBIS is turned off though

It's the same with the stabilised Panasonic lenses - if you put your ear close to them, you can hear a 'hissing' noise. The IBIS hardware is always 'active' when the G80 is turned on, and the small body of the G80 (and GX80) means the internal mics are very close to the IBIS system. So basically you can either have good stabilisation (G80/GX80), or clean sound (G6/G7/GH4) from the on-camera mics.

As far as know, the more upmarket GH5 and G9 have a 'noise cancelling' mic buried inside the camera body to pick up the IBIS noise, which is then subtracted from the main mics output to remove the 'breakthrough' noise - one of the recent firmware updates for those cameras was to 'optimize' that noise reduction:

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Improvement of sound recording performance

- Sound quality has been improved by optimizing the noise reduction performance of internal noise cancelling microphone.

...and of course the larger bodies of the G9/GH5 mean the mics are further way from the sensor anyway.

By the way - the long extension arm that is shown in the Tascam TM-2X mic pictures is optional (and I never use it) - the basic mic isn't very large, and looks a sensible size mounted on the G80 hot-shoe.

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On 1/12/2019 at 7:20 AM, ac6000cw said:

As far as know, the more upmarket GH5 and G9 have a 'noise cancelling' mic buried inside the camera body to pick up the IBIS noise, which is then subtracted from the main mics output to remove the 'breakthrough' noise - one of the recent firmware updates for those cameras was to 'optimize' that noise reduction:

Interesting ,wasn't aware the GH5 (but not GH5S? ha! Seeing as it has no IBIS) did that. 

I also assume one of the many mics built into the BMPCC4K is there for a similar noise reduction purpose. 

 

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21 hours ago, IronFilm said:

I also assume one of the many mics built into the BMPCC4K is there for a similar noise reduction purpose. 

Ah, that might explain the complicated looking microphones it has.. :)

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