Stabilizer or gimbal?

[Thatguy]

I have a project coming up in early summer where I need to film a long section of hiking in the Alps.  I need a nice smooth shot but also somewhat natural looking as it should be POV.   I have researched every gimbal out there and am afraid of not only the % of lemons but more scared of the CS from these Chinese firms. (Would make a great horror flick).  I'm not ready to travel down that rocky road yet, maybe.  I believe I may get better (or least amount of headaches) from a glidecam or a shoulder rig with a lot of weight hanging off of it.  Or would a simple hand held cage work?  The POV would be nice as it makes the viewer feel like they are the ones hiking, but not required.  Please help.  And no body vests, this hike wont be easy. 

Camera:  looks like it will be a GH5 or S1 whenever it gets released.  Gopro is not good in the forest light. 

Thanks. 

[kye]

What kind of shots are you thinking of getting?  There's a huge difference between a rig that you can stop and film people hiking (shoulder-rig perhaps) and a rig where you can film while also moving with the group over difficult terrain..  also, how much setup time do you anticipate having?  A glidecam might take a few minutes to balance every time you wanted to take a shot, whereas others would only take seconds. 

[Thatguy]

11 minutes ago, kye said:

What kind of shots are you thinking of getting?  There's a huge difference between a rig that you can stop and film people hiking (shoulder-rig perhaps) and a rig where you can film while also moving with the group over difficult terrain..  also, how much setup time do you anticipate having?  A glidecam might take a few minutes to balance every time you wanted to take a shot, whereas others would only take seconds. 

The shot will be as if the viewer were hiking.  No other person.  Yes I will have to walk and film this trail thats quite rocky and uneven.  Something where you have to pay attention even without filming.  So balance and fatigue is in the equation.  Glide cam looks good but quick to fatigue.  Shoulder rig looks better for fatigue but worse for balance???   By balance I mean me and not the rig.  Again this trail is not easy even just hiking.  One eye on the camera and the other for the ground and rocks that may trip me. 

[KnightsFan]

I think a motorized gimbal will give the best results with the least amount of attention paid to the rig, which seems to be the critical element here. Benefits to a motorized gimbal: Significantly easier to keep level, which will be HUGE if you are walking on rough terrain or climbing over things. It will be significantly easier and faster to balance, which is crucial if you are in a hurry.

The glidecam is not a bad option at all, and would be my pick if you can be sure of your footing. A few benefits to the glidecam: no batteries, no firmware, very weather resistant. It's significantly easier to pan and tilt naturally with a glidecam, you just touch it and it moves. Much more intuitive and tactile than twiddling with joysticks or touchscreen apps. You can also carry it easily when not shooting. A motorized gimbal will flop around if it is off, so you need a way to secure it when not in use.

If neither of those will work, I would go for a fig rig. It's essentially just two handles shoulder-width apart, and a top handle. I know people who have made their own out of old bike wheels. Using this will keep your horizon more level than just holding the camera. You can operate it one handed if you need to clamber up stuff. Again no batteries or firmware to worry about. A fig rig won't do MUCH stabilization, but it's better than nothing.

My last pick would be the shoulder rig. I can't imagine doing a strenuous hike with one of those on me. Maybe other people have better technique, but for me to get decent results I have to keep my back and neck pretty straight, which is impossible hiking up or down any sort of incline or when scrambling up and over things. And if you need to swing your arm out suddenly to maintain balance... goodbye camera.

Whatever you go with, I definitely recommend having a quick and secure way to put the rig away, and leave both hands free, just in case.

[kye]

I agree with @KnightsFan about the practicalities of the different pieces of equipment, but I'm wondering what aesthetic you're interested in creating?

Gimbals eliminate all shake to the point of creating the feel of a disconnected flying perspective.  This might be right if you're trying to make something look beautiful, but if you're interested in a POV where it's about the difficulty of the climb and you can hear the climber breathing heavily, boots crunching over rocks, maybe loose rocks falling over the edge, etc, then a gimbal would be a terrible choice and you'd want something that showed the movement of each step, and each little slip.

Start with the desired aesthetic and work backwards, only then compromise on practical grounds if you have to.  

[Thatguy]

Thanks for both of your replys, its very helpful.  The aesthetic I am going for is capturing the beauty of the hike with relaxing nature sounds (stream, occasional boots on rock, the birds and wild life, no heavy beathing).  I want that floating flying feel over the foot step jitter, but also capture a natural looking gain of elevation as you take a big step up.  Its not a mountaineering climb but you do have to watch foot placement. 

[kye]

6 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

Thanks for both of your replys, its very helpful.  The aesthetic I am going for is capturing the beauty of the hike with relaxing nature sounds (stream, occasional boots on rock, the birds and wild life, no heavy beathing).  I want that floating flying feel over the foot step jitter, but also capture a natural looking gain of elevation as you take a big step up.  Its not a mountaineering climb but you do have to watch foot placement. 

In that case then maybe a gimbal is a good choice.  It fits the feel, if you mount the camera with a quick-release plate and then balance it then it should stay balanced and be quick to setup, and perhaps most importantly, before you take a big step you can strap it to your chest somehow, put it into locked mode, and then take the step and have full use of both hands when doing those tricky bits of a climb.  I think I've seen people strap a gimbal to the front strap on a backpack so maybe that might work.

[Kisaha]

@Thatguy what about sound then?

[BTM_Pix]

This application is another one that instantly made me think again of the SteadXP.

Having it on the camera and you just being able to concentrate of getting in the ballpark framing wise (as well as not falling off the mountain!) without additional weight and encumbrance of a stabilisation system and being able to achieve it in post seems an ideal use case.

Being able to decide later just how much float or authenticity to the footage is also something that isn't possible with a hardware stabilisation system.

There just doesn't seem to be enough consensus on how well it works as a general reliable solution other than 'when it works, it works great' and results like this one do seem to tally with that.

I'm going to pick up a used one on eBay I think to see for myself as adding this level of stabilisation (when it works  ) to all of my cameras at that price is intriguing.

After using the Insta 360 One X recently and seeing the sort of results wider capture with post stabilisation can achieve its even more interesting to me now.

 

[Thatguy]

1 hour ago, Kisaha said:

@Thatguy what about sound then?

I will use a Zoom H5 and might pick up a NTG4  but may use a NT2A as well.  I need to get the NT2A for some music recording before I get a NTG4 or silimar shotgun mic, but I might not need a shotgun except when I need to zero in on one sound in particular.  The NT2A is propably the most versatile mic in existance. Plenty of people use it for ambient sounds.  I dont know how well its recieved in the videography world but in the music world its considered the best all round mic without having to spend an extra $1,500 to go one level up in quality.  At $200 its a steal for what it is.  Sorry, rambling, I love microphones and can talk about them all day.  Guitars too.  

Back to the point.  It would be ideal to mount the H5 and mic to the rig but not absolutely neccessary as I will stop filming to record a nice sound to lay over the video with a few real time clips (boots on rock) in between.  Mounting would make it easier.  

[Kisaha]

14 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

I will use a Zoom H5 and might pick up a NTG4  but may use a NT2A as well.  I need to get the NT2A for some music recording before I get a NTG4 or silimar shotgun mic, but I might not need a shotgun except when I need to zero in on one sound in particular.  The NT2A is propably the most versatile mic in existance. Plenty of people use it for ambient sounds.  I dont know how well its recieved in the videography world but in the music world its considered the best all round mic without having to spend an extra $1,500 to go one level up in quality.  At $200 its a steal for what it is.  Sorry, rambling, I love microphones and can talk about them all day.  Guitars too.  

Back to the point.  It would be ideal to mount the H5 and mic to the rig but not absolutely neccessary as I will stop filming to record a nice sound to lay over the video with a few real time clips (boots on rock) in between.  Mounting would make it easier.  

My main job is production sound for film and video, and sound seems like a very important part of your project also.