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Kangaroo

From 6d to GH3, is it worth it?

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On 1/5/2019 at 11:44 AM, Kangaroo said:

I'm currently using a 6d for both photo and video, nothing professional and I've found a very good deal on Gh3.

Define "a very good deal"?

As I'd probably lean slightly towards a G6 over a GH3, and I'd very strongly prefer a G7 over a GH3. 

Thus any "deal" on a GH3 would have to be cheaper than either of those, and substantially so. 

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On 1/5/2019 at 6:09 PM, Kangaroo said:

It's worst than the gh2 in low light? 

No. The GH3 is better. 

Basically the GH series got better with every generation, as you'd expect. 

 

On 1/6/2019 at 8:28 AM, Kangaroo said:

My goal is to build a small rig with decent IQ, the gx85 was one of the first thing that came to my mind but it does not have a mic input, I could buy an external recorder but it would not be so little in the end and it would cost me twice the price of the gh3.

Eh? The Zoom F4 goes on sale for US$350

And the Tascam DR60D can be found for $150ish

On 1/6/2019 at 8:28 AM, Kangaroo said:

The BMPCC is just too much to handle

Pop an external battery on top (I use a BP-U30) and shoot in ProRes and the BMPCC is a joy to easily shoot with. 

On 1/6/2019 at 3:50 PM, mercer said:

That is definitely true. I still think the GH2 has a very valid place in today’s filmmaking. And the X-T3 is obviously a great little camera but I wonder if a C100 with the built in NDs and DPAF would better  suit you. They’re really not that big. And the FS5 is even smaller. And either of those cameras are great for wedding videos. 

The FS5 is really tiny for a S35 camcorder, you might find it no more awkward than using the likes of a 5D / 1D C type camera for filming with. 

 

On 1/7/2019 at 5:07 AM, newfoundmass said:

The G7, if I recall, has an image that rivals (and maybe even surpasses?) the GH4, if the videos I watched a few years ago were accurate. It's a very good option and is probably the best bang for your buck even today.

 

EOSHD did a blog post which showed GH4 vs G7 in lowlight and the G7 was better. 

 

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BTW I got the gx85 in the end, the ibis is really amazing, with an adapted 50mm (so 100mm equiv) I can achieve some amazing steady shots, the body itself seems to be built much better than the g7 and with a pancake lens the camera is almost pocketable. The only downloadside is the missing jack input but I can charge the battery using my phone power bank, that's really useful! 

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On 1/15/2019 at 10:04 AM, ac6000cw said:

No - the GX85 is a bit older, and the internal processing is set up differently - take a look at the 'Video stills comparison' (for 1080p) on dpreview - the GX85 is much softer. Also the G85 has a few more adjustments (like continuous autofocus speed) that can be useful (I own both of the cameras).

This is some of the bullshit you only read in online forums. If you say something like that, is is only because you are justifying paying more for the g85 over the gx80. The gx80 has equivalent 4k to the g85. That is what matters. If you really think that they process the image differently in fhd, then give me an official enginnering source or make that judgment over your own footage, do not just reference another test because you are lazy to do your own.

I think a couple of points have to be added here. 

The GX80 is by far the better professional budget option then the g85. Who cares if the fhd is worse then something else, you are not gonna buy a porsche and then only drive it at 100kms an hour, comparing the sound to a fiat. 

Why? In 4k, there is no visual difference to be seen to the gh5 4k, and equivalence to the g85 4k. We have recently shot a documentary and noone could tell much difference to the gh5, even at 200mbs, to the 100mbs 4k of the gx85. Feel free to post a screengrab with the gh5, I will give you one of my gx80 that will look as good.

You get the gx80 for around 200 to 300 bucks less then the g85. The gx85 is missing external audio jack, but this does not matter, since if you shoot professionally, you will not allow bad pre amps or camera sounds to go on your audio and go dual audio.

One other thing is weight, people say the gx80 is missing weight, but as a b-camera, this is a huge upside. We were shooting while hiking and carrying the gh5 on a gimbal/glidecam slash the gx80, we always ended up using the gx80 on the glideplus a 40mm voigtlander, and we got the most beutiful shots. 

The gx85 has professional features that if you go dual audio, you not really need and, if you have the same budget, it allows you to get a cage, grip and a zoom h1, which will take your gh5 audio apart.

To summarize, the gx85 is in my opinion the best price/value under 1000 dollars, its a beast. So getting the gx85 over the g85 is a no brainer. 

Comparing it to the gh3, I think the gh3 is a beautiful camera, and if there would be image stabilization, I would recommend the gh3 over the gx80. But ibis is still what kills the gh3. On top, I am currently building up anamorphic, and the gx85 allows you to shoot 4:3 in 4k photo mode, which the gh3 does not. On the other hand, the gh3 has internal audio (bad preamps). 

The gh3 also gives you better slow motion then the gx80 at 50mbit/s vs 28mbit/s.

The G7 is the gh3 with worse slow-motion and worse fhd, so I would go for the gh3 over the g7 and the gx80 beats the g7 as well because of ibis.

I don't wanna be mean but there has been some junk written in this thread about high iso and soft footage of the gx80.
 If you are gonna use iso higher iso than 1000 with a m43 camera, you are already doing something wrong. Without loss of IQ, you are gonna use fast lenses or lighting to shoot at the right light. 


I do own the gx80 and I can recommend over the g7 and g85 as a first cam, b-roll cam or professional b-cam, for a gimbal/glidecam for stuff like weddings, or as the first camera to get at the current state of technology (which is 4k) 

 

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5 hours ago, Kangaroo said:

BTW I got the gx85 in the end, the ibis is really amazing, with an adapted 50mm (so 100mm equiv) I can achieve some amazing steady shots, the body itself seems to be built much better than the g7 and with a pancake lens the camera is almost pocketable. The only downloadside is the missing jack input but I can charge the battery using my phone power bank, that's really useful! 

Good job! If you need any more tips regarding the gx85 feel free to ask me, I own it for some time now.

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Well, it’s all relative. I owned both the GX85 and the G85 and I preferred the ergonomics of the G85 to the GX85 and I felt the IBIS was a little better... not as good as Olympus’ but a little better than the GX85. Also if you’re talking sub $1000, you can buy a G9 for less than a grand now, and the IBIS on that camera is supposedly 2 stops better than the GX85 plus it has 4K up to 60p... so it’s all relative.

With that being said, the GX85 is a great camera and other than a used Pocket/Micro it’s the best camera under $500.

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You know now if you are lucky you can find a used Canon M50 for 500 bucks or a bit more. I know they don't have all the video bells and whistles a Panasonic has, but they are an interesting camera for the money.They sure do have the Canon CS and DPAF in 1080p. And I bet down the road they will have ML out for it. No IBIS though.

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5 hours ago, mercer said:

Well, it’s all relative. I owned both the GX85 and the G85 and I preferred the ergonomics of the G85 to the GX85 and I felt the IBIS was a little better... not as good as Olympus’ but a little better than the GX85. Also if you’re talking sub $1000, you can buy a G9 for less than a grand now, and the IBIS on that camera is supposedly 2 stops better than the GX85 plus it has 4K up to 60p... so it’s all relative.

With that being said, the GX85 is a great camera and other than a used Pocket/Micro it’s the best camera under $500.

I do not think that IBIS is better, this comes most likely from the additional weight and better grip with the g85. Right now, I have a cage around my gx85 so if I would do a test video of "my"/the gx85 ibis it would appear to be better. The good thing is if I rig the camera up, at the end of the day I am happy about less weight, and the ergonomics do not matter anymore.

You are right that there are better cameras, I did not follow the very last trends in terms of pricing :) In terms of value for money, I think the gx85 is up top, but of course, this is always subjective depending on what you need in the camera. 

It is also worth to remind yourself what nice things have been shot with what cameras. I always remind myself of the fact that watchtower of turkey has been shot with the gh3, making me want to have that camera for slow-motion, even though I am happy with the gx85 :)

 

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10 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

You know now if you are lucky you can find a used Canon M50 for 500 bucks or a bit more. I know they don't have all the video bells and whistles a Panasonic has, but they are an interesting camera for the money.They sure do have the Canon CS and DPAF in 1080p. And I bet down the road they will have ML out for it. No IBIS though.

Yeah they sell em on ebay for $500 and that is brand new units. 

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16 hours ago, canonlyme said:

Good job! If you need any more tips regarding the gx85 feel free to ask me, I own it for some time now.

Thank you! Right now I'm testing picture profiles, what do you think it's the best?

15 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

You know now if you are lucky you can find a used Canon M50 for 500 bucks or a bit more. I know they don't have all the video bells and whistles a Panasonic has, but they are an interesting camera for the money.They sure do have the Canon CS and DPAF in 1080p. And I bet down the road they will have ML out for it. No IBIS though.

That's a really nice camera, I've looked at it but I think that now that I now what IBIS is capable of I don't wan't to lose it!

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22 hours ago, Kangaroo said:

BTW I got the gx85 in the end, the ibis is really amazing, with an adapted 50mm (so 100mm equiv) I can achieve some amazing steady shots, the body itself seems to be built much better than the g7 and with a pancake lens the camera is almost pocketable. The only downloadside is the missing jack input but I can charge the battery using my phone power bank, that's really useful! 

Good choice. It's a great camera (as are all the cameras discussed in this thread). Just don't drop the bloody thing! That screen on the back is so exposed. Mine has a big crack across it. Totally my fault, but it still works. So all good. 

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13 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

I hate that F ing video GH3 or not LoL.

hate is a strong word, at least you can respect the craftsmanship if it is not your style. 

3 hours ago, Kangaroo said:

Thank you! Right now I'm testing picture profiles, what do you think it's the best?

That's a really nice camera, I've looked at it but I think that now that I now what IBIS is capable of I don't wan't to lose it!

IMO the best is cinelike D for gradability in post, using something like noam kroll settings. http://noamkroll.com/the-best-gh4-settings-for-video-why-you-shouldnt-be-tweaking-things-too-much/

If you want something straight out of camera and little projects I would recommend natural. 

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4 hours ago, Kangaroo said:

Thank you! Right now I'm testing picture profiles, what do you think it's the best?

You won't find it in the stock profiles, but if you would like to use Cinelike D and Cinelike V the instructions on how to enable it are here.

Once you have enabled it, use the C1 etc profiles to save it so that you can recall it 

I have also attached the most recent version of the html file that you should use to implement it (ignore that its called GX800 TESTER as it will work for the GX80/5 as well) 

GX800 TESTER V2.html

 

GX800 TESTER V2.html

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On 1/4/2019 at 11:44 PM, Kangaroo said:

Hi! 

I'm currently using a 6d for both photo and video, nothing professional and I've found a very good deal on Gh3. The 6d would still be used for photos because it's all I need but the videos always feels a bit too mushy, I like the color and the FF look but in the last few years I've seen so many videos from other cameras that I would really love to have a clean and crisp image. I was considering the gx85 but I'll be shooting only 1080p and the gh3 should be better in this regard. So I was wondering if the gap would be actually huge or if it would just be a minor upgrade. I've seen a few samples from a guy on yt that is still using the gh3 and to me it's pretty amazing but maybe I should just work more with the camera that I have. 

Also, the pre amp on the gh3 should be much better right? 

I haven't read all 4 pages of replies, but have owned GH3, GH4, GH5 and 5D2 plus 5Dsr.

What I will say about 1080p on the GH3 is it doesn't use all the pixels (it skips a bunch) which can lead to quite bad aliasing/moire on subjects that lead to that (the 5Dsr is actually a lot better and really doesn't do aliasing that I can detect). I would be tempted to look for deals on the Panasonic G80/85 (number depends on where you are in the World, it's the same camera, note G not GX) with the 12-60 kit lens (plus check you are happy with the viewfinder when panning).

Another option if you have Canon glass is the EOS M50, which does a nice 1080p with Dual-Pixel AF (the 4k isn't as good) and can take your Canon lenses with an adaptor (which is sometimes thrown in).

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1 hour ago, canonlyme said:

hate is a strong word, at least you can respect the craftsmanship if it is not your style. 

 

No I will stand by my statement. Rapid camera cuts like that can even give people seizures. I just don't like that style. Be he has 78,289 subscribers so I guess someone likes it. And all the videos he does are just like it.

As to the craftsmanship part, well that is sort of like the most beautiful woman in the world beating the living crap out of me with the best made ball peen hammer in the world. I would still F ing hate it. 😜

 

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On 1/20/2019 at 3:23 PM, webrunner5 said:

No I will stand by my statement. Rapid camera cuts like that can even give people seizures. I just don't like that style. Be he has 78,289 subscribers so I guess someone likes it. And all the videos he does are just like it.

As to the craftsmanship part, well that is sort of like the most beautiful woman in the world beating the living crap out of me with the best made ball peen hammer in the world. I would still F ing hate it. 😜

 

 

14 hours ago, TheRealOG said:

LOL Ur comment wins!

Guys, I do not know if you know the rules about open discussion, but it is said that you express your opinion without respect. Having an opinion is not about winning, this is a forum not a fight. Your opinion is not more credible because you have had more commens or likes in this forum, I am having my discussions not just in this forum, but in real life, family, cafe's and student classes. 

saying: your comment wins, I find this a very ungrown way to lead discussions- and i am young. The video is of a craft that has at that time won a video arthouse price in vimeo, we are not judging things here by the means of a filmmaker, but most people here are videomakers. This is a video that is so good, that just because it is hectic, does not ask to be hated. I get the feeling your strong espression of "fking hate" does not only come from dislike, but maybe also fear. Is this something you can easily recreate, making so many different shots, or is this also something that is overwhelming you through the quality of images that you can achieve? youtube allows you to play everything at speed 0,25, an easy fix not to cause any seizures. Have you watched lord of the rings, do you fking hate one of the most iconic movie scenes by hitchcock in psycho, cut way under 1 second in average? 

The sounddesign of this video is also very high, is sound something that you do not care about? About the grading, what you say makes it seem that you hate coen brothers movies and most movies since the 2000's except arthouse, as this is a standard complementary grade of colors, which has been used by painters. 

Feel free to clear me up about your opinion, I am interested in discussing this with you. But I have seen ignorance in many parts of this forum, so it would not surpise me if not. The ratio here is talking about your favourite lens < creating something yourself. I am making a thesis that you are not a better filmmaker than allesandri, and you would not be able to create such movie with a gh3 - prove me wrong.

On 1/20/2019 at 2:21 PM, BTM_Pix said:

You won't find it in the stock profiles, but if you would like to use Cinelike D and Cinelike V the instructions on how to enable it are here.

Once you have enabled it, use the C1 etc profiles to save it so that you can recall it 

I have also attached the most recent version of the html file that you should use to implement it (ignore that its called GX800 TESTER as it will work for the GX80/5 as well) 

GX800 TESTER V2.html

 

GX800 TESTER V2.html

Thanks :) Is there any difference in the new version because of witch I should rehack my gx80?

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14 minutes ago, canonlyme said:

 

Thanks :) Is there any difference in the new version because of witch I should rehack my gx80?

Nope, the core part is exactly the same.

That file just has a few more items in it to test stuff for on the fly exposure changes for the GX800.

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"I hate that F ing video GH3 or not LoL." is a great statement. It is not a not a critique of the video itself, but a comment on the GH3 itself. You can use any tool that you want to create your work. Use a t2i, an arri, a bowlex, a 5Dmkii with magic lantern... The video was created in 2014, which at the time the GH3 was cutting  edge. 4k was not accessible to the masses. I own a canon 80D and owned a c100, and they are my favorite cameras. I have also owned the latest cameras, but I stick with the 80D because I enjoy it. It isn't any better than the GH3. I'm not turning up my nose at that video. Take your blinders off mate. I've been doing video work for a long time, proving myself to a stranger is a zero sum game.

 

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