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Snowbro

Canon Has Solved No IBIS On EOS R

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Honestly, I think IBIS is overrated. Almost all the implementations I have seen can add a weird warping effect to the footage. I prefer our four stills... actually love it for stills,  but for video I think lens stabilization or a gimbal makes for more predictable results. 

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When you are an old turd like me you NEED IBIS or a great Tripod! I think some of the stuff you see that looks bad has more to do with You Tube compression than real fact. But I will admit Canon has done a pretty good job with their in lens stabilization. But adding IBIS would not hurt, especially for a mirrorless camera. Not being able to use non native lens with no stabilization sort of sucks when you need it. Kind of the draw about mirrorless.

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6 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

Imo the in body stabilization in the EOS-R is better than IBIS. Works perfectly without wobbly artifacts.

Did you do a review of the EOS R? I would be interested in hearing about your experiences with it. 

Also, does the stabilization work in HD mode?

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13 hours ago, DBounce said:

Did you do a review of the EOS R? I would be interested in hearing about your experiences with it. 

Also, does the stabilization work in HD mode?

Will upload it this or next weekend. 

I have so far only used it in HD mode, so yes.

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The thing is, you can always do electronic stabilization in post. But if you don't have ibis, you can't stabilize in hardware. You can use ois lenses which can do some of the axis, but you can't stabilize roll. 
I am not saying that ibis is an absolut must have, on the contrary, I think it's overrated. But I say having is better than missing it.

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You have to study how to do panning with IBIS, but If you do a hand filming in general, than IBIS is great for eliminating hand shakes, better than in lens IS. And it works with every lens of course.

But, don't expect it to show Gimbal level performance. Maybe the new Olympus E M1 X will be close to that... 

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2 hours ago, frontfocus said:

The thing is, you can always do electronic stabilization in post. But if you don't have ibis, you can't stabilize in hardware. You can use ois lenses which can do some of the axis, but you can't stabilize roll. 
I am not saying that ibis is an absolut must have, on the contrary, I think it's overrated. But I say having is better than missing it.

The in body IS in the EOS-R is much better than doing it in post. It works flawlessly without the wobbly artifacts you get when doing it in post.

To be honest, the in body IS is a game changer.

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4 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

The in body IS in the EOS-R is much better than doing it in post. It works flawlessly without the wobbly artifacts you get when doing it in post.

To be honest, the in body IS is a game changer.

From  Canons data:

"The IS system acquires camera-shake data from both a gyroscopic sensor in the lens and image data from the camera’s CMOS sensor. This Dual Sensing IS system can accurately detect and compensate for low-frequency (slow) blur that used to be hard to detect with gyroscopic sensors alone. As a result, camera-shake blur on the EOS R is reduced by the equivalent of a 5-stop faster shutter speed."

The 5 stops blur reduction matches the performance of the Nikon Z6 with IBIS. Warp stabilizer in post cannot achieve the same level of artifacts free stabilization. Which is why I never use it. I think electronic is the best solution. In its most extreme implementations such as in 360 cameras, its performance even surpasses gimbals. 

Here is a video demonstrating the EOS R IS system:

 

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electronic stabilization is nothing else than stabilization in post. Take the crop of a frame and transform it. 

And yes, in body IS is a game changer, but canon is not doing any stabilization in body, they are doing in software stabilization

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13 minutes ago, DBounce said:

The 5 stops blur reduction matches the performance of the Nikon Z6 with IBIS. Warp stabilizer in post cannot achieve the same level of artifacts free stabilization. Which is why I never use it. I think electronic is the best solution. In its most extreme implementations such as in 360 cameras, its performance even surpasses gimbals. 

 

But there are some not so good aspects of that compared to IBIS: you loose some sharpness in picture and in most cases, you get another extra crop of the frame while using digital IS.

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16 minutes ago, liork said:

But there are some not so good aspects of that compared to IBIS: you loose some sharpness in picture and in most cases, you get another extra crop of the frame while using digital IS.

There are always compromises. I've yet to see the perfect system. And I can tell you I have used the best. But let's face the facts... you can only physically move a camera sensor so far. And that distance is no more than a fraction of an inch. So that's you physical limit as to how much movement can be compensated for. Whereas with a larger framing, one could easily compensate for several inches of movement electronically. 

@frontfocus As for those that think a 5 axis hybrid stabilization system that accounts for lens geometry, gyroscopic data, speed etc... such as that in the EOS R is the same as post stabilization... good luck with that!

All this smack talking is amusing to me. It was the same when the M50 came out. The spec sheet warriors tore it apart. But it became very popular anyway, because you have to look at the results,  not just specs. 

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3 minutes ago, DBounce said:

@frontfocus As for those that think a 5 axis hybrid stabilization system that accounts for lens geometry, gyroscopic data, speed etc... such as that in the EOS R is the same as post stabilization... good luck with that!

I'd love to see an explanation as to what is different. A white paper anywhere? What can the camera do in software? It can transform the image. And ofc it uses gyro data, since it's available and the camera is missing the horse power to analyze and transform the videostream. 
 

I am not saying that electronic stabilization is bad, I am saying it's no replacement for other forms of stabilization. You can electronically stabilize an already hardware stabilized video. That's what canon and others do when you attach an ois lens. 

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6 minutes ago, DBounce said:

There are always compromises. I've yet to see the perfect system. And I can tell you I have used the best. But let's face the facts... you can only physically move a camera sensor so far. And that distance is no more than a fraction of an inch. So that's you physical limit as to how much movement can be compensated for. Whereas with a larger framing, one could easily compensate for several inches of movement electronically. 

So, that's why right now, for hand held shooting (while standing) IBIS is better without any sharpness / crop loss. For smooth walking, Gimbal + high quality digital IS is probably the best option.

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As explained above, EOS R's EIS communicates with the gyroscope as well as the lens IS to give you a result close if not superior to 5 axis IBIS.

Stabilization in post simply guesses camera movement which often induces artifacts due to misinterpretation, so no it's not the same.

That said EIS on EOS R does add a crop and softness.. to a camera already blamed for it's (4K) crop & softness.. so a perfect solution it is not.

I don't mind it that much and it works ok for me but I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't rather have IBIS on board..

 

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4 minutes ago, Django said:

As explained above, EOS R's EIS communicates with the gyroscope as well as the lens IS to give you a result close if not superior to 5 axis IBIS.

 

As you said, as long as the EIS has extra crop and softness, it cannot be "close or superior" to IBIS. On the day it will overcome these 2 problems, then I will prefer that.

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Canons system is a variation on what you see in SteadXP. As it does intelligent stabilization utilizing real-time data from the camera and lens. 

Here is a video of the SteadXP system vs Warp Stabilizer:

 

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