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Oliver Daniel

My quick EVA1 mini review

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In my experience the only people I know that shoot RAW are ones that only do a couple projects a year. When you're working on tight deadlines you don't really have time to make shooting RAW worth it. For a lot of shoots we don't even shoot in log. Most production work is weighing what you NEED with what you want. You may want to shoot in RAW or log but do you NEED to? Do you have time to really work with it?

Put me in the EVA1 camp, if I have to choose. Versatility is the most important thing to me. It still has a gorgeous image even if it doesn't have those Canon colors. 

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On 12/28/2018 at 5:30 AM, mercer said:

How is it a glorified C100 Mark III? Rawlite is its primary feature. If you don’t need Rawlite, then use a different camera but to say it’s something other than it is because it isn’t what you want/need is a bit unfair. 

It is a glorified C100 mk3 because there are surprisingly many people who are buying the C200 just to shoot in 4K 8bit because there is now C100 mk3 to do this with instead. 

 

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5 hours ago, IronFilm said:

It is a glorified C100 mk3 because there are surprisingly many people who are buying the C200 just to shoot in 4K 8bit because there is now C100 mk3 to do this with instead. 

 

Ok, it’s a glorified C100 Mark III. And if those people are buying it to shoot 8bit, then more power to them. Maybe that shows the versatility of the camera. In fact, I do see a lot of people posting samples of their work on IG that they’ve shot in 8bit on the C200 for clients... they seem to have a lot of projects... so maybe the whole 10bit “middle codec” thing is blown out of proportion around here and the C200 is a way more capable camera than even I give it credit for.

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58 minutes ago, mercer said:

Ok, it’s a glorified C100 Mark III. And if those people are buying it to shoot 8bit, then more power to them. Maybe that shows the versatility of the camera. In fact, I do see a lot of people posting samples of their work on IG that they’ve shot in 8bit on the C200 for clients... they seem to have a lot of projects... so maybe the whole 10bit “middle codec” thing is blown out of proportion around here and the C200 is a way more capable camera than even I give it credit for.

 

 

00618435-E6FA-4AC7-A021-6DD4965817F2.jpeg

 

Btw we should be really focused on EVA1 not C200 on this thread

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16 minutes ago, ntblowz said:

Btw we should be really focused on EVA1 not C200 on this thread

 

Serendipitously, Panasonic announced a price drop for the EVA1 today. $6495 MSRP, down from $7345. I'm doing my best not to pull the trigger on a second one. but also wondering if this drop is in anticipation of an EVA2 (or EVA1 Mark II) announcement in the coming months.

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1 hour ago, mercer said:

Ok, it’s a glorified C100 Mark III. And if those people are buying it to shoot 8bit, then more power to them. Maybe that shows the versatility of the camera. In fact, I do see a lot of people posting samples of their work on IG that they’ve shot in 8bit on the C200 for clients... they seem to have a lot of projects... so maybe the whole 10bit “middle codec” thing is blown out of proportion around here and the C200 is a way more capable camera than even I give it credit for.

The middle codec thing is a real thing for TV professionals, I thought that was clear until now. It is in the technical specifications on most of the contracts we sign with the TV stations here. You just can not deliver whatever you like. 

So, if I am spending 10.000€ for a camera (+accessories), then I would like to be able to use it for TV work and not rent, or the production company rent from me.

Right now S-log is the most popular in our industry. Literally hundreds of FS7 cameras in TV stations and production companies, while I know 2 guys owning a C200 and for the very first time in history EVAs and UMP are more than a C model.

This is the cheapest C camera that shoots 4K also, which is ridiculous in my opinion, there is a huge hole in the line up.

So, this really is: either a hobbyist's camera, with most of them - including you - can not afford, or internet creators's camera that do not have specific specs to meet and the less choices give them ease of mind.

Both of the above groups are amazing, just not the appropriate path for some of us.

If I want to play with Raw for a couple projects per year I am getting a P4K, then another camera to do my other 8bit jobs, and buy a Sachtler flowtech with an FSB head, and probably buy a couple of new led lights.

 

 

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1 hour ago, ntblowz said:

Btw we should be really focused on EVA1 not C200 on this thread

No truer statement has been posted but I think since Oliver was seriously considering the C200 for a few seconds, that it kinda bled over into this thread.

With that being said, I think the EVA1 is an amazing camera and with @Zak Forsman ‘s EVA1 price drop news, the EVA1 becomes even more attractive to me and I’m sure to anyone contemplating a C200 or FS7. 

However, a lot of you guys could shoot in Pixelvision and get a great output.

1 hour ago, Kisaha said:

The middle codec thing is a real thing for TV professionals, I thought that was clear until now. It is in the technical specifications on most of the contracts we sign with the TV stations here. You just can not deliver whatever you like. 

So, if I am spending 10.000€ for a camera (+accessories), then I would like to be able to use it for TV work and not rent, or the production company rent from me.

Right now S-log is the most popular in our industry. Literally hundreds of FS7 cameras in TV stations and production companies, while I know 2 guys owning a C200 and for the very first time in history EVAs and UMP are more than a C model.

This is the cheapest C camera that shoots 4K also, which is ridiculous in my opinion, there is a huge hole in the line up.

So, this really is: either a hobbyist's camera, with most of them - including you - can not afford, or internet creators's camera that do not have specific specs to meet and the less choices give them ease of mind.

Both of the above groups are amazing, just not the appropriate path for some of us.

If I want to play with Raw for a couple projects per year I am getting a P4K, then another camera to do my other 8bit jobs, and buy a Sachtler flowtech with an FSB head, and probably buy a couple of new led lights.

 

 

I’m not saying the middle codec isn’t important to a lot of productions... I’m sure it is. With that being said, I don’t think I am properly getting my point across, so I will concede to your knowledge of the needs for the professional market. As a hobbyist, narrative filmmaker, I’m obviously out of my depth here and have no inner knowledge of the Greek broadcast production standards. But I never said I couldn’t afford a C200, I merely said that it doesn’t fit my run and gun production needs at this time. When and if I am in the market for a cinema camera, the internal RawLite from the C200B will be a contender, as will the 5.7K Raw output from the EVA1 and the ProRes Raw output from the FS5/II.

@Zak Forsman have you tested the Raw output from the EVA1 and if so, what are your thoughts, or better yet, do you have any clips to share?

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1 hour ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

I don't think 10 bit is overrated. Its just not needed for every project.  

Could you elaborate a bit on this?

My thought is that 10-bit would certainly help those of us shooting LOG on Sony consumer cameras (a7 series and a6 series) and who have little control over lighting.

I am guessing that F Log on the X-T3 benefits significantly from 10-bit, but maybe just the higher bitrate codec has the biggest benefit???

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4 minutes ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

Could you elaborate a bit on this?

My thought is that 10-bit would certainly help those of us shooting LOG on Sony consumer cameras (a7 series and a6 series) and who have little control over lighting.

I am guessing that F Log on the X-T3 benefits significantly from 10-bit, but maybe just the higher bitrate codec has the biggest benefit???

I would say if you aren't doing a lot of color work you aren't going to need 10 bit capture. Flog works pretty well in 8bit in general, more prone to banding of course. 

I think 10 bit can help in terms of dynamic range. 10 it color should hold up better in shadows, when raising in post. That said again if you aren't doing much in post you probably won't really notice the difference between 10 and 8. 

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2 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

I would say if you aren't doing a lot of color work you aren't going to need 10 bit capture. Flog works pretty well in 8bit in general, more prone to banding of course. 

I think 10 bit can help in terms of dynamic range. 10 it color should hold up better in shadows, when raising in post. That said again if you aren't doing much in post you probably won't really notice the difference between 10 and 8. 

Thanks!

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7 hours ago, mercer said:

so maybe the whole 10bit “middle codec” thing is blown out of proportion

No it is not. 

Just there are many jobs which are ok with 8bit, but there are also many jobs which demand 10bit. The C200 gets excluded from those. 

 

6 hours ago, Mmmbeats said:

EVA1 price dropped today - now $6495 US list price.


I was hoping the announcement was going to be an EVA1 MFT 😞

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7 hours ago, mercer said:

As a hobbyist, narrative filmmaker, I’m obviously out of my depth here and have no inner knowledge of the Greek broadcast production standards.

It is not just the Greeks! Is kinda almost universal across many different countries, there is a frequent common requirement for 10bit.

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19 hours ago, Zak Forsman said:

Serendipitously, Panasonic announced a price drop for the EVA1 today. $6495 MSRP, down from $7345. I'm doing my best not to pull the trigger on a second one. but also wondering if this drop is in anticipation of an EVA2 (or EVA1 Mark II) announcement in the coming months.

Most likely I think is an L-mount mini-cinema camera, priced just below the EVA1 (as per a rumour).  Too soon for EVA2 I feel.

ETA: Might be a bit of wishful thinking on my part, though 😉.

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39 minutes ago, Mmmbeats said:

Most likely I think is an L-mount mini-cinema camera, priced just below the EVA1 (as per a rumour).  Too soon for EVA2 I feel.

ETA: Might be a bit of wishful thinking on my part, though 😉.

Mine as well! I am still waiting for a similar camera (smaller form factor than EVA's tier, cheaper).  In the end I will just grab the P4K and I will be merry.

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