Trek of Joy Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 After years of being Mac only and a one-man-band, my work is requiring me to be more collaborative with a few PC only shops. So to make life easier, I'm going to move to Resolve as my main editor and build a windows box. I'll be editing stills/video including h264 and h265 from various hybrids and raw from a Blackmagic P4k at some point in the next 6 months or so. My grades are mostly primaries with a lut, along with lots of titles and music/audio tweaks. I don't do FX. I have a 1tb SSD on my iMac as my main edit drive. Most projects are no more than 4 or 5 minutes long (though I'm doing an 8-hour Yule Log by looping a 30 minute Red shot this weekend, first in HD and then upscaling to 4k), so I do want another SSD. Beyond that I'm not sure where to go. Any advice on where to focus the cash in terms of processor, video cards, ram and so on is greatly appreciated. My budget is $3000-ish for the box, and I'm just going to go with something like Alienware because I don't want to mess with a pile of parts to build, chasing down drivers, figuring out why audio isn't working with certain pieces of software and so on - that's what drove me to Mac in the first place. Plus, I'm knee deep in learning Resolve while trying to wrap 3 edits, along with 3 more shoots coming up that have to be turned around before x-mas. I've looked at the BMD hardware guide, but I'd like some advice from other users as well. Thanks for any suggestions. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 Have you had a look at the BM documentation? They have a document called something like the "hardware guide" for Resolve, it steps through all the different combinations and gives specific advice on things. It's not a complete answer to every question but it's a good place to start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 I have heard Alienware is not what it was value wise years ago. Not sure what to tell you what to buy. Dell has always been good stuff. No doubt a Desktop Box is way cheaper than any Laptop that might edit 4K. I would just get up on the web and see if you can find some good comparisons. 3000 bucks ought to get the job done on a Box. The big money might be in buying a decent 4K, 5K monitor that can do HDR 2020. That is going to be the future, and it is here now. HDR is the future like it or not, a heck of a lot more than 8K is ever going to be for years to come. Heck even a few Phones do true HDR now, and a lot of them can view it on the display. A lot of videos are going to look pretty weak not using HDR when it gets damn popular. My son and I were in Best Buy a few months ago and particularly Sony TV's that had HDR were a True standout compared to those that didn't have it. You could spot them half way across the store. They are that good. TurboRat and Orangenz 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trek of Joy Posted December 2, 2018 Author Share Posted December 2, 2018 17 hours ago, kye said: Have you had a look at the BM documentation? They have a document called something like the "hardware guide" for Resolve, it steps through all the different combinations and gives specific advice on things. It's not a complete answer to every question but it's a good place to start. Yeah, I looked that the guide. Some of the boxes spec'd are $10k+, but the common theme is more cores in the processor and lots of ram, plus a high end GPU. I haven't looked at PC's in years, but with Dell you can add 1.5 TB of ram for a cool $45,000. Yikes. 15 hours ago, webrunner5 said: I have heard Alienware is not what it was value wise years ago. Not sure what to tell you what to buy. Dell has always been good stuff. No doubt a Desktop Box is way cheaper than any Laptop that might edit 4K. I would just get up on the web and see if you can find some good comparisons. 3000 bucks ought to get the job done on a Box. The big money might be in buying a decent 4K, 5K monitor that can do HDR 2020. That is going to be the future, and it is here now. HDR is the future like it or not, a heck of a lot more than 8K is ever going to be for years to come. I'm getting a HDR monitor as well, that's not included in the PC budget. Thanks. Chris kye 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emanuel Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 AFAIK this is the best deal IMHO: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Gigabyte-Aero-15X-v8-i7-8750H-GTX-1070-Max-Q-Full-HD-Laptop-Review.296594.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-Core-i7-8750H-SoC.275944.0.html For less than EUR2000 before taxes, I bet you have no need to go higher... i9 are too expensive for now and the difference is narrow at portable side (beware it is a whole other universe the one you get comparing with a desktop offer BTW) but hexa-core will help you out and the jump is not so critical as happens on the desktop world then*, even though Resolve requires more work from GPU than CPU as matter of fact. I'd also consider to go on this nowadays 11-18 route as well: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-NUC-Kit-NUC8i7BEH-i7-8559U-Mini-PC-Review.360356.0.html Other than that, for LUTs and non-FX work? I guess anything above all that up there in these last paragraphs ends to be overkilling. Thunderbolt 3 is currently a standard you won't want to avoid and really future proof, so pretty mandatory though, count on it. Be welcome to the Windows realm, Chris! Hope this helps, E : -) * https://www.pcworld.com/article/3267699/laptop-computers/should-you-buy-a-core-i9-laptop.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frontfocus Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 Why not put windows on the iMac? Personally I though about doing a Threadripper build with an AMD Vega 64 and hackintoshing it, but didn't want to go through all the troubles. As you say, there is more or less no problem with macs. With macOS the iMac supports 10bit, something Windows needs workstation class cards for. About hardware: take a look at puget systems, they have a Davinci Benchmark and test nearly all new powerful hardware for their own builds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emanuel Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 39 minutes ago, frontfocus said: About hardware: take a look at puget systems, they have a Davinci Benchmark and test nearly all new powerful hardware for their own builds. Yeah, based on the same Intel NUCs but old version to begin with, yet much more expensive than the US$470 (!) recommended price to start/configure your 32GB RAM (it only costs more EUR100-150 + taxes than 16GB!) and 512GB SSD minimum requirements you'll say thanks from there and taken that basis: https://ark.intel.com/products/126140/Intel-NUC-Kit-NUC8i7BEH Let alone the much more affordable editing route on going by proxies as your handy portable solution wherever you want ; -) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 I don't see why anyone wants to buy a Laptop to do 4K 60 10bit, or 12bit Raw editing. Do you really think a laptop is going to be able to run balls to the wall, wide open doing a 1 hour or more Render?? Crazy talk. Or being stuck doing Proxies all your life. You want big boy Codecs you have to buy big boy computers. Most people would be better off buying a old C300, C100 and being able to edit with a 2010 Mac Laptop. Probably better output to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emanuel Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 How are you doing when you're on location? When you are between projects as for instance? I will give you a fine example from my own life and experience... I was two years without returning home. Three years some other time. Back to 2007-2013, so... Without mention when in your set you need to start handling your "big boy codecs" : D How would I do without one or even two notebooks? Modern gaming laptops with improved thermal architecture and proper heating dissipation can guarantee you anything you're looking for. Do you think BMD would launch a $1,000-1,500 4K camera without having that in mind? We all live in a time where mobile technology came to stay and rule. Count on it. Don't give yourself excuses to be outside overlooking the P4K loop ; -) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trek of Joy Posted December 3, 2018 Author Share Posted December 3, 2018 12 hours ago, frontfocus said: Why not put windows on the iMac? Personally I though about doing a Threadripper build with an AMD Vega 64 and hackintoshing it, but didn't want to go through all the troubles. As you say, there is more or less no problem with macs. With macOS the iMac supports 10bit, something Windows needs workstation class cards for. About hardware: take a look at puget systems, they have a Davinci Benchmark and test nearly all new powerful hardware for their own builds. I've been editing some raw footage and my late 2015 model (4ghz i7, 4gb video, 32gb ram, 1tb ssd) slows down considerably. I'm not 100% sold on going Windows as I'd hate to mess with two systems. Its already a PITA dealing with multiple cameras. Just seems to be something that will make collaborating easier, and the iMac Pro's eye watering prices are too hard to stomach. 30 minutes ago, Emanuel said: Modern gaming laptops with improved thermal architecture and proper heating dissipation can guarantee you anything you're looking for. Do you think BMD would launch a $1,000-1,500 4K camera without having that in mind? We all live in a time where mobile technology came to stay and rule. Count on it. Don't give yourself excuses to be outside the P4K loop ; -) I wonder if those will be any faster than my current iMac. I won't buy something for a marginal gain, I'd rather buy the P4k and grind it out with my current setup. I'm really looking for a noticeable difference. Thanks for the links. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 If it takes a 6000 Dollar desktop to do this stuff Ain't no Laptop in hell going to do that. And that system is not the best you can do. https://www.pugetsystems.com/recommended/Recommended-Systems-for-DaVinci-Resolve-187/Buy_250 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emanuel Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 17 minutes ago, Trek of Joy said: I wonder if those will be any faster than my current iMac. I won't buy something for a marginal gain, I'd rather buy the P4k and grind it out with my current setup. I'm really looking for a noticeable difference. Thanks for the links. With that iMac unit, you're on 4GB VRAM. It is not enough for Resolve. What's your processor, Chris? 14 minutes ago, webrunner5 said: If it takes a 6000 Dollar desktop to do this stuff Ain't no Laptop in hell going to do that. https://www.pugetsystems.com/recommended/Recommended-Systems-for-DaVinci-Resolve-187/Buy_250 Overkilling, so too expensive. With eGPU you can get 11GB VRAM at portable side... ; -) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kisaha Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 Heat dissipation is a nightmare for laptops. Even desktop replacements have heat issues, and they are huge and heavy. I bought a mid-tier Asus last year with a 1060 graphic card and I am really disspointed when it reaches 90-95 degrees during export or other demanding situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 10 minutes ago, Emanuel said: Overkilling, so too expensive. With eGPU you can get 11GB VRAM at portable side... ; -) So Emanuel you are going to hook that eGPU to a late 2013 Apple Pro and it is going to grade without proxies, and render no problem C200 Raw footage? Or are you talking editing C100 footage LoL? ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emanuel Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 1 hour ago, Kisaha said: Heat dissipation is a nightmare for laptops. Even desktop replacements have heat issues, and they are huge and heavy. I bought a mid-tier Asus last year with a 1060 graphic card and I am really disspointed when it reaches 90-95 degrees during export or other demanding situations. http://www.coolermaster.com/cooling/notepal-series/notepal-u3-plus/ 1 hour ago, webrunner5 said: So Emanuel you are going to hook that eGPU to a late 2013 Apple Pro and it is going to grade without proxies, and render no problem C200 Raw footage? Or are you talking editing C100 footage LoL? ? What do you have against proxies to begin with? : D I see them rather useful BTW. Maybe it's just me who did the film school editing 16mm by proxies hehe on a good old AVID Media Composer suite... I didn't mention Chris' late 2013 iMac but a 2018 i7 hexa-core unit though. Resolve basically handles the image processing based on GPU. Do not ignore the lighter BRAW neither. See Dave's findings from his system based on 1080Ti GPU (11GB VRAM) as far as processing requirements of this codec concerns: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mokara Posted December 3, 2018 Share Posted December 3, 2018 On 12/1/2018 at 12:04 PM, Trek of Joy said: After years of being Mac only and a one-man-band, my work is requiring me to be more collaborative with a few PC only shops. So to make life easier, I'm going to move to Resolve as my main editor and build a windows box. I'll be editing stills/video including h264 and h265 from various hybrids and raw from a Blackmagic P4k at some point in the next 6 months or so. My grades are mostly primaries with a lut, along with lots of titles and music/audio tweaks. I don't do FX. I have a 1tb SSD on my iMac as my main edit drive. Most projects are no more than 4 or 5 minutes long (though I'm doing an 8-hour Yule Log by looping a 30 minute Red shot this weekend, first in HD and then upscaling to 4k), so I do want another SSD. Beyond that I'm not sure where to go. Any advice on where to focus the cash in terms of processor, video cards, ram and so on is greatly appreciated. My budget is $3000-ish for the box, and I'm just going to go with something like Alienware because I don't want to mess with a pile of parts to build, chasing down drivers, figuring out why audio isn't working with certain pieces of software and so on - that's what drove me to Mac in the first place. Plus, I'm knee deep in learning Resolve while trying to wrap 3 edits, along with 3 more shoots coming up that have to be turned around before x-mas. I've looked at the BMD hardware guide, but I'd like some advice from other users as well. Thanks for any suggestions. Chris Easier to make your own system, nowdays drivers are not an issue unless maybe if you get stuff from some obscure manufacturer. It will cost less and you will get exactly what you want. Lots of nice looking cases are available now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leslie Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 2 hours ago, Emanuel said: http://www.coolermaster.com/cooling/notepal-series/notepal-u3-plus/ What do you have against proxies to begin with? : D I see them rather useful BTW. Maybe it's just me who did the film school editing 16mm by proxies hehe on a good old AVID Media Composer suite... I didn't mention Chris' late 2013 iMac but a 2018 i7 hexa-core unit though. Resolve basically handles the image processing based on eGPU. Do not ignore the light BRAW neither. wow nice cover picture my temperature just went through the roof too and not because of the cpu either ? 2 hours ago, Kisaha said: Heat dissipation is a nightmare for laptops. Even desktop replacements have heat issues, and they are huge and heavy. I bought a mid-tier Asus last year with a 1060 graphic card and I am really disspointed when it reaches 90-95 degrees during export or other demanding situations. so global warming is your fault ? not sure why you guys in the north dont save your footage up and edit in winter your machines would run way cooler ? all jokes aside my laptop is my fastest machine at the moment , it has the free davinci on it in anticipation of learning abit about it while i wait for the bmp4k to turn up. at the moment i am liking the idea of an intel nuc if i can hang a gpu off the side of it and get improved working times i'd be happy with that.my projects aren't mission critical with a one hour turn around. of course my situation is different to those of you that have to make a living out of this. what i would find interesting is a poll or new thread perhaps with an overview of peoples current systems and average times to process a job, that may give some of us a bit of a heads up but maybe thats my newbie appreciation of things and not so relevant for you that have been around for awhile Emanuel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kisaha Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 6 hours ago, leslie said: so global warming is your fault ? not sure why you guys in the north dont save your footage up and edit in winter your machines would run way cooler ? all jokes aside my laptop is my fastest machine at the moment , it has the free davinci on it in anticipation of learning abit about it while i wait for the bmp4k to turn up. at the moment i am liking the idea of an intel nuc if i can hang a gpu off the side of it and get improved working times i'd be happy with that.my projects aren't mission critical with a one hour turn around. of course my situation is different to those of you that have to make a living out of this. I live in the southest part of Europe which is a quite warm place. External temperature and a fan base (which I always use, regadless) do not change the fact that todays processing power needs huge coolers and vents and fans. Take a look at the GH5, to make it a video powerhouse, the camera with the smaller sensor is bigger and heavier than most dSLRs. When you start to add things up to fight heat, then just go buy a real desktop with less money and many more advantages. My laptop is my fastest machine too, but I am going to build a new desktop soon for more demanding applications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emanuel Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 6 minutes ago, Kisaha said: I live in the southest part of Europe which is a quite warm place. External temperature and a fan base (which I always use, regadless) do not change the fact that todays processing power needs huge coolers and vents and fans. Take a look at the GH5, to make it a video powerhouse, the camera with the smaller sensor is bigger and heavier than most dSLRs. When you start to add things up to fight heat, then just go buy a real desktop with less money and many more advantages. My laptop is my fastest machine too, but I am going to build a new desktop soon for more demanding applications. Your laptop with 6GB VRAM is not the fastest you can buy today, mate : -) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 On the subject of proxies, Resolve has a built-in function to render them so you don't even need to manage them, I'm sure that the other editors also have one-click solutions too. I edit 4k 10-bit 150Mbps GH5 footage like butter on my 13 inch 2016 MBP laptop with prores proxies. It takes time to render them obviously, but it means you're not carrying around a 5k or 5kg computer Emanuel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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