webrunner5 Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 Yep, I stand corrected. 1.29 crop. Too many new cameras out. That is actually not too bad. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 3 hours ago, thebrothersthre3 said: Yeah the FS700 definitely has the best 120p. Its actually pretty affordable too. Not what the OP wants though, its much bigger then a DSLR or SLR. The Z Cam E2 is tiny! Yet the OP thought that was too "big".... The FS700/recorder combo is going to be waaaaaaaaaaaay too big then! This btw is a great blog if you're looking for low budget but high speed cameras: http://www.hispeedcams.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 14 hours ago, wolf33d said: With the new players (Z7, XT3, upcoming S1...) I think it would be cool to re-give the prize for best 120p in the market. @Andrew Reid you have both the XT3 and Z7, which one is better in 120p? Any footage comparison planned? All good 120p cameras now do good quality for close up (like a portrait and big bokeh) but you can easily tell them appart when you film a wide busy scene with water and grass for example: this is what is interesting to compare. Worth putting in the comparison IMO: A7III / RX100 / Z7 / XT3 / GH5 / 1DX2 and soon S1 and A7SIII Great thread. Wouldn't it just be a matter of bitrate though? 120 is difficult in those busy deep DoF shots because the amount of data available for each frame is low and the IQ suffers accordingly because there's so much information in the frame to try and fit into that limited data. I never understood why manufacturers didn't just scale the bitrate up with the frame rate - the idea of slow motion is to conform to the native frame rate.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
androidlad Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 4 hours ago, thebrothersthre3 said: I looked it up, its a 1.29x crop, so with the 1.5 crop its 1.79 Still better the an M43 camera shooting 24fps. Maybe you are thinking of the BMP4K which is a 2.7 crop or something like that. X-T3 120p has 1.28x crop. 1.5 x 1.28 = 1.92x relative to FF It's multiplication, not addition. 1 hour ago, kye said: Great thread. Wouldn't it just be a matter of bitrate though? 120 is difficult in those busy deep DoF shots because the amount of data available for each frame is low and the IQ suffers accordingly because there's so much information in the frame to try and fit into that limited data. I never understood why manufacturers didn't just scale the bitrate up with the frame rate - the idea of slow motion is to conform to the native frame rate.. Regarding HFR bitrate, it doesn't need to be very high because HFR footage have very small motion difference in between frames, which is highly efficient for interframe compression. X-T3 does 120P at 200Mbps Long GOP, and ALL-I is not available for HFR including 4K 60p, likely due to processing power constraints. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrothersthre3 Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 46 minutes ago, androidlad said: X-T3 120p has 1.28x crop. 1.5 x 1.28 = 1.92x relative to FF It's multiplication, not addition. Regarding HFR bitrate, it doesn't need to be very high because HFR footage have very small motion difference in between frames, which is highly efficient for interframe compression. X-T3 does 120P at 200Mbps Long GOP, and ALL-I is not available for HFR including 4K 60p, likely due to processing power constraints. oh that makes sense, still less cropped then my GH5 in standard frame rates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 53 minutes ago, androidlad said: Regarding HFR bitrate, it doesn't need to be very high because HFR footage have very small motion difference in between frames, which is highly efficient for interframe compression. That's a good point, and also explains why some footage looks ok and other things don't. Assuming you shoot with a 180 degree shutter then people running will be a lot easier to compress in HFR, but if you're shooting a waterfall then it's the opposite - the 180 shutter will blur the water droplets in normal speed but in HFR many more droplets are visible because they're moving a lot slower during each exposure, and so there's heaps and heaps of fine detail to fit into the bit-rate. I guess the moral of the story is that consumer cameras are ok to film your cat in slow motion, but if you're travelling and want to film the town waterfall then it's got to be a cinema camera recording RAW ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf33d Posted October 11, 2018 Author Share Posted October 11, 2018 8 hours ago, kye said: Great thread. Wouldn't it just be a matter of bitrate though? 120 is difficult in those busy deep DoF shots because the amount of data available for each frame is low and the IQ suffers accordingly because there's so much information in the frame to try and fit into that limited data. I never understood why manufacturers didn't just scale the bitrate up with the frame rate - the idea of slow motion is to conform to the native frame rate.. I think it’s mainly a question of resolution. In most of the mentionned cameras we get upscaled 720p thus poor looking images. It’s true that the bitrate is also too low for Sony for example. what is the 120p bitrate on Z6/Z7? It’s 200mbps h265 on XT3 isn’t it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 11 hours ago, wolf33d said: I think it’s mainly a question of resolution. In most of the mentionned cameras we get upscaled 720p thus poor looking images. It’s true that the bitrate is also too low for Sony for example. Of course.. I didn't think of that. It's like they're cheating lol record 360p and upscale in camera to 4K..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf33d Posted October 15, 2018 Author Share Posted October 15, 2018 @Andrew Reid would love to hear your view on this particularly A7III vs Z7 vs XT3 as they seem to have the best 120p. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
androidlad Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 DPReview just published X-T3 lab test for video, the 120P quality is significantly better than A7 III and GH5. https://***URL removed***/reviews/fujifilm-x-t3-first-impressions-review/7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf33d Posted October 17, 2018 Author Share Posted October 17, 2018 14 minutes ago, androidlad said: DPReview just published X-T3 lab test for video, the 120P quality is significantly better than A7 III and GH5. https://***URL removed***/reviews/fujifilm-x-t3-first-impressions-review/7 Thanks for posting So much better indeed. Look at the text phrase under the squares. Damn, much better even than D5500 1080p24 which is pretty good for 1080p. I am buying this thing, at least until the S1 and A7SIII come. Wow, good to finally get a great 120p. It's even better than RX100 VI 1080p24 !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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