Jump to content

Camcorder for Narrative Filmmaking


mercer
 Share

Recommended Posts

I have a GH5 and Sony FDR AX-700. I really like the Sony, especially since I don't have to worry about autofocus (alas, aging eyes).  I use it for both personal and professional work (disability policy related video interviews and stories). In any event, this short video gives you a sense of the Sony colors - less than a minute on our dahlias - 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

EOSHD Pro Color 5 for Sony cameras EOSHD Z LOG for Nikon CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs
2 hours ago, mercer said:

A camcorder with a built in lens and Nd filters, with XLR inputs with the camcorder form factor just sounds really appealing to me right now...

FWIW, the feature film that won the audience award at the film festival I help run was shot by a novice on a FX-1000.

It looked pretty lousy. 

Didn't matter to the audience though. 

The writing and acting carried the film. 

The only feature length narrative I've ever managed to shoot and edit was done on a Canon XH A1...no regrets.  

I like great IQ too and will pursue it, don't get me wrong, but just shoot your thing with whatever it takes. Nobody outside of other film people really care about the tools of the craft, just the results.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Super Members
48 minutes ago, Grimor said:

Always thought  those camcorders were for porn

There is real risk that the other types of camera are actually becoming porn though.

2 hours ago, mercer said:

Yup great point, I just realized that other than XLRs and the smaller MP sensor, I really wouldn’t be getting a lot more even with the X1... and at that price I may as well spend a little more and go with the larger sensor DVX200...

 

Or you could up the sensor size even further and go for this combo of LS300 and Angenieux 25-250 which will give you a 10x zoom camcorder/cinema camera hybrid (which we will brand as a Cinecorder ;) )with an aesthetic that I think you can get behind for around £3K used all in.

Add in the Ninja V and you've got 4K60p as well for another £600.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, bsalisbury said:

I have a GH5 and Sony FDR AX-700. I really like the Sony, especially since I don't have to worry about autofocus (alas, aging eyes).  I use it for both personal and professional work (disability policy related video interviews and stories). In any event, this short video gives you a sense of the Sony colors - less than a minute on our dahlias - 

 

Thanks for posting this. I must say, the Sony camcorders do look nice and seem feature packed with sLog and PDAF. The NX variant does add the XLRs and top handle for only a little more, though. Do you record internal audio with the AX700?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, mercer said:

With my desire to work on more films and longer ones, mixed with my style of run and gun, one man band filmmaking, having a second interchangeable lens camera system, sounds like an expensive and time consuming endeavor for someone who is mostly interested in telling stories first and cinematography second or third and audio tenth.

Can't you find a budding aspiring cinematographer to work with? 

As cinematography isn't your #1 priority (writing is) that would very simply answer all your camera concerns! You use instead what he decides for you is best for your project. 

And of course find some willing sucker to do sound too....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Can't you find a budding aspiring cinematographer to work with? 

As cinematography isn't your #1 priority (writing is) that would very simply answer all your camera concerns! You use instead what he decides for you is best for your project. 

And of course find some willing sucker to do sound too....

Well, until I came to this site, I thought a lot of filmmakers were one man band. I guess coming to age in the 90s when indie cinema was in its glory days, you heard stories of Soderberg shooting Sex Lies and Videotape, or Kevin Smith shooting Clerks, or Robert Rodriguez shooting El Mariachi for $7000. These guys wrote their scripts, rented a camera, directed and shot their film.

I love operating the camera and the impromptu shot creation, mixed with storyboards and shot lists... I just don’t care about codecs, follow focus units, and half the things a lot of folks around here care about. I care about story and composition. I don’t think others are wrong, I’m the weirdo around here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, Mako Sports said:

I have the Sony PXW Z90, bigger brother to the NX80 and AX700. Its pretty good if you want built in ND's, pro audio inputs and full customization over picture profiles. Also I much prefer camcorder ergonomics to ANY mirrorless or dslr, just feels right in the hand. 

I was actually just reading about that model. With the 10bit 1080p, it almost seems like the S16, camcorder version of the FS5... just $2000 cheaper. If I decide to go forward with this, the Z90 is on the top of my list. Do you use sLog with it? What other PP does it offer?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, kaylee said:

have you read Rebel Without A Crew? Ill bet u have!

Yeah I have it, not in a while though... strange to think that so much time has passed, but I read that back in my 20s... ugh early 20s. Yuck. 

Great book though. If anybody ever thinks they are bogged down with minutiae, read that book... it will get you on track. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, mercer said:

Yeah I have it, not in a while though... strange to think that so much time has passed, but I read that back in my 20s... ugh early 20s. Yuck. 

Great book though. If anybody ever thinks they are bogged down with minutiae, read that book... it will get you on track. 

Yeah!

You might want to reread it, I did, and it is AMAZING how much i know about filmmaking now compared to the first time i read it years ago. i mean i still dont kno wtf im doing lol... but. its getting better

anyway, remember how RR cut Mariachi *on video*, and THAT got the film sold?!?!? All the screwy cuts that didnt work, which he THEN made part of the style of the film...? crazy stuff!!

anyway, MY first short that im finishing right now doesnt have dialogue because i was literally like Eff that Im not dealing with recording audio on the set, so I wrote something without dialogue ? glad i did~! Easy! and then it also has that international no subtitles "transcending language" kind of flair

maybe write something w/o dialogue, something short, just for the ease of shooting it @mercer...? just a thought!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

s16 was the standard for indie film productions for the simple fact that it was portable, cheap and you didn't have to fuss around with focus. You put a wide angle lens on and put it in f5.6 and you are golden. Camcorders offer much of the same conveniences. But I can't help but feel the newer variants do look dedicedly more video. s16 should be max 2k like the digital bolex. 

Having said that, I have seen xc10 footage which I would say is filmic:

That would be my first choice. My setup for the kind of intimate filmmaking you are talking about is to have a s16 digital camera, and have my talent wired with a tascam dl-10 and team lav mics. Gives u great freedom and mobility. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, mercer said:

I was actually just reading about that model. With the 10bit 1080p, it almost seems like the S16, camcorder version of the FS5... just $2000 cheaper. If I decide to go forward with this, the Z90 is on the top of my list. Do you use sLog with it? What other PP does it offer?

Yeah I sort of treat it like S16 camera, Ive used Slog 2 and 3 with it few times for when I need the most possible ddynamic range. but i'm just personally not a big fan of shooting Log. However it also has Cine 1 - 4, and HLG 1,2, and 3. I really like Cine 2 for neutral lighting, Cine 4 for lowlight, and Cine 1 - HLG 3 for high dynamic range situations. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Or you could up the sensor size even further and go for this combo of LS300 and Angenieux 25-250 which will give you a 10x zoom camcorder/cinema camera hybrid (which we will brand as a Cinecorder ;) )with an aesthetic that I think you can get behind for around £3K used all in.

Add in the Ninja V and you've got 4K60p as well for another £600.

Plus if he likes vintage lenses and wants a smaller sensor so he doesnt have to fuss around with focusing he can use the ls300 in s16 mode and get some nice s16 super speed zeiss lenses for cheap to give him a similar look. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@mercer yes, I remember your fondness for the XC10 :)

Reading your other comments, and talking in the context of getting the job done, I think there's a few approaches you could take, depending on how you shoot.

1) just use the 5D for everything. You already own it, no work in post matching cameras, and it's only one setup to carry around with one type of battery, media, etc.

2) get additional cameras. If you go this route then if at all possible I'd suggest matching brands so the colour science (which I remember is a priority for you) matches easily in post. You may even consider another ML camera as extra time on set may pay off in editing (or may not!). If you use multiple cameras on set it may even be worthwhile matching lenses and battery types in order to cut down on what you're carrying around.

It sounds to me like buying a camcorder may be tempting simply because a DSLR and ML is fiddly and annoying, which I totally understand.

I challenge you to think about the film you are making and ask yourself how many shots in the final edit will be able to be captured with a camcorder. Most films these days have relatively shallow DoF on almost all shots except wide and establishing shots, and although a camcorder would be great for those, will it really be more efficient to have an entire second setup instead of the camera you are already using for most other shots?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Or you could up the sensor size even further and go for this combo of LS300 and Angenieux 25-250 which will give you a 10x zoom camcorder/cinema camera hybrid (which we will brand as a Cinecorder ;) )with an aesthetic that I think you can get behind for around £3K used all in.

 Add in the Ninja V and you've got 4K60p as well for another £600.


Or keep an eye out for pricing on the Venus Optic's new Laowa 25-100mm T2.9 cine zoom. 

 

5 hours ago, mercer said:

Well, until I came to this site, I thought a lot of filmmakers were one man band. I guess coming to age in the 90s when indie cinema was in its glory days, you heard stories of Soderberg shooting Sex Lies and Videotape, or Kevin Smith shooting Clerks, or Robert Rodriguez shooting El Mariachi for $7000. These guys wrote their scripts, rented a camera, directed and shot their film.

I love operating the camera and the impromptu shot creation, mixed with storyboards and shot lists... I just don’t care about codecs, follow focus units, and half the things a lot of folks around here care about. I care about story and composition. I don’t think others are wrong, I’m the weirdo around here.

It is really hard for a director to focus on story and the actor's performance for it, when he is being distracting by operating the camera (plus lighting!) and managing sound as well. 

Then it is very disheartening when a quarter of the way through you listen/watch back what you've got so far, and realize half of it is trash due to technical faults....

So saying "you don't care about all those other things" is only an even greater reason to try and get some crew on board. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Super Members
27 minutes ago, IronFilm said:


Or keep an eye out for pricing on the Venus Optic's new Laowa 25-100mm T2.9 cine zoom. 

 

Yes, looking at the prices of their other lenses, it might well be a very interesting option.

Another option actually that makes sense for a single operator with the LS300 is the Sigma 24-105mm f4 combined with the Aputure LensRegain which, with the prime zoom, will give you a 24-125 f2.8 zoom in 4K (or 24-210mm f2.8 in HD) with electronic programmable follow focus.

The only slight snag is having to take the adapter bottom apart to fit it because of the protruding ND wheel on the LS300 but on the day of our Lord it is worth remembering this is why He gave us gaffa tape.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, kaylee said:

Eff that Im not dealing with recording audio on the set

 I'm a fan of Leone, so the idea of doing audio overdubs in post is cool. 

Also, if you watch a lot of late 20th century films you'll hear the practice all the time. It was pretty common. 

It's a fun alternative way to do stuff. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • EOSHD Pro Color 5 for All Sony cameras
    EOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs
    EOSHD Dynamic Range Enhancer for H.264/H.265
×
×
  • Create New...