IronFilm Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 16 minutes ago, jonpais said: Even @anonim‘s night shots with the GH5 looked one hundred times cleaner. But were they at over 8000 ISO? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deezid Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, Simon Young said: Just stop. The Fuji will have a problem with waxy skin tones at ISO above 800 (not very film like) and the Blackmagic looks lackluster to me, extremely digital looking as you call it, from what I’ve seen. And that tiny sensor won’t make anyone happy shooting above 400 ISO. Let me guess, you didn't download any of the raw/prores footage provided by Blackmagic or others to date? ISO5000 looked extremely clean in these tests with lots of detail - AND no signs of any sharpening nor noise reduction, which are basically the definition of a digital looking image or what the Nikon Z6/Z7 and Zcam 2 do. The Fuji X-T2 did a lot of filtering to skintones. The H1 and X-T3 don't. At least in their F-Log and even Eterna modes (when both sharpening and nr are turned off). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Young Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 1 minute ago, deezid said: Let me guess, you didn't download any of the raw/prores footage provided by Blackmagic or others to date? ISO5000 looked extremely clean in these tests with lots of detail - AND no signs of any sharpening nor noise reduction, which are basically the definition of a digital looking image or what the Nikon Z6/Z7 and Zcam 2 do. The Fuji X-T2 did a lot of filtering to skintones. The H1 and X-T3 don't. At least in their F-Log and even Eterna modes (when both sharpening and nr are turned off). Can someone, you or the hack Luke Mason, please back up those claims about the NR being turned off with Eterna or F-log? I haven't seen anything about, neither in the white papers or in the footage. Looks both sharpened and noise reduced to me. And yes, I did download the prores footage by Blackmagic and graded it in Resolve and you know what, it was FUCKING NOISY. Which was expected of course, just as when you shoot he Nikon at 8.000 with n-log. hansel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deezid Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 1 minute ago, Simon Young said: Can someone, you or the hack Luke Mason, please back up those claims about the NR being turned off with Eterna or F-log? I haven't seen anything about, neither in the white papers or in the footage. Looks both sharpened and noise reduced to me. And yes, I did download the prores footage by Blackmagic and graded it in Resolve and you know what, it was FUCKING NOISY. Which was expected of course, just as when you shoot he Nikon at 8.000 with n-log. Was the noise sharpened though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Young Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, deezid said: Was the noise sharpened though? Keep trolling. Still no evidence of NR or sharpening being turned off with Eterna or F-log. Still no jaw droppingly clean GH5 footage at ISO 5000 from you. Castorp 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deezid Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 5 minutes ago, Simon Young said: Keep trolling. Still no evidence of NR or sharpening being turned off with Eterna or F-log. Still no jaw droppingly clean GH5 footage at ISO 5000 from you. A feature film I just finished. Many shots in the trailer up to ISO6400. Everything shot on the GH5 (two shots on the DJi Phantom 4 Pro and one shot on the GoPro 6) Still wouldn't want to continue shooting on the GH5, since the Blackmagic Pocket 4k and Fuji X-T3 look way better while the new Nikons look a few steps back. This was shot on the X-T3 with the standard sharpening setting which actually looks great. So if you do sharpening, do it right. ? salim and IronFilm 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Young Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 A Memento of life looks horrible, but thank God it's a very rough grade, the skin looks almost Sony-green, which is not a compliment. The trailer to your feature looks fine though. Danyyyel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deezid Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 12 minutes ago, Simon Young said: A Memento of life looks horrible, but thank God it's a very rough grade, the skin looks almost Sony-green, which is not a compliment. The trailer to your feature looks fine though. It looks horrible due to the grade. F-Log is basically Rec2020 with similar color coordinates and it looks like no conversion to Rec709 has taken place which results in kinda Sony like skintones - I agree. But the potential is there definitely. Definition and texture look great even with standard settings as it seems. The GH5 isn't great and maybe not much better in terms of overprocessing in comparison to the Z6/Z7. The footage actually needs lots of processing to hide the internal processing which is as it sounds, ridiculous. The footage from the BM P4K wouldn't need any of that, just put a diffusion filter on the lens and you should be good. The grain in the ISO5000 sample I saw, looked really pleasing, wouldn't even denoise that. Simon Young 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castorp Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 12 minutes ago, deezid said: A feature film I just finished. Many shots in the trailer up to ISO6400. Everything shot on the GH5 (two shots on the DJi Phantom 4 Pro and one shot on the GoPro 6) Still wouldn't want to continue shooting on the GH5, since the Blackmagic Pocket 4k and Fuji X-T3 look way better while the new Nikons look a few steps back. This was shot on the X-T3 with the standard sharpening setting which actually looks great. So if you do sharpening, do it right. ? The film you worked on looks cool! Thats a very different kind of grade though. In the footage from the Z6 I see detail in the shadows. There is basically no light and yet I see detail everywhere, and most importantly, the image looks really good. In your trailer the shadows are clipped to black. hansel and Simon Young 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deezid Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 1 minute ago, Castorp said: In your trailer the shadows are clipped to black. Intentionally, since they were really noisy, and not that kind of nice noise you get on ARRI and Blackmagic cameras ? Castorp and Simon Young 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Young Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 I just hope there's a way to really turn off the NR in both the Z6 and the X-T3, please let this be the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deezid Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, Simon Young said: I just hope there's a way to really turn off the NR in both the Z6 and the X-T3, please let this be the case. Would be great, but actually wouldn't bother with the processing I've seen in the X-T3 clips so far that much. The sharpening in the Z6 clip is causing the terrible artifacts we see in the new clip - which has some really nice compositions btw. If it can be turned off, the camera would be great for video work, especially with something like the Ninja V attached. MattH 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Young Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 6 minutes ago, deezid said: Would be great, but actually wouldn't bother with the processing I've seen in the X-T3 clips so far that much. The sharpening in the Z6 clip is causing the terrible artifacts we see in the new clip - which has some really nice compositions btw. If it can be turned off, the camera would be great for video work, especially with something like the Ninja V attached. Yes, the Ninja V seems extremely promising as well. Will get both the X-T3 and the Z6 and later decide which one that better suits my needs. I have a feeling the IBIS of the Z6 might be what settles it in the end... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deezid Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 1 minute ago, Simon Young said: Yes, the Ninja V seems extremely promising as well. Will get both the X-T3 and the Z6 and later decide which one that better suits my needs. I have a feeling the IBIS of the Z6 might be what settles it in the end... IBIS on the GH5 is amazing and it's a reason for me to wait for the X-H2 instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 48 minutes ago, Simon Young said: The trailer to your feature looks fine though It looks more than fine! Often the challenge of a low budget feature film is keeping up the quality level from start to finish. (not just the snippets in the trailer) If that has been done, then very good work indeed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Calabros Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 You guys need to understand that shot noise is different from sensor noise. All these new CMOS sensors are very low noise chips, regardless of their area size, so what you see is mostly shot noise, which is revealed in low light situations where randomness of the photons appears as noise, and you can't do much about that other than temporal noise reduction that is better be applied in post. So for comparing two cameras, you have to test them in exactly identical environment, "my footage is cleaner than your footage" is stupid method. hansel, Castorp, Simon Young and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hansel Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 No idea if it is really turned off but in the menu of the d750 you have 4 high iso nr thingys....should be the same in the z6. Simon Young and deezid 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deezid Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 36 minutes ago, hansel said: No idea if it is really turned off but in the menu of the d750 you have 4 high iso nr thingys....should be the same in the z6. Is there a sharpening setting as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hansel Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 6 minutes ago, deezid said: Is there a sharpening setting as well? Is is connected to the picture profiles... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpais Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 If they were shooting N-Log, it’s possible it wasn’t given enough exposure as well, which would increase noise levels quite a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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