gethin Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 WTF? A year away? https://petapixel.com/2018/04/30/nikon-confirms-new-mirrorless-system-to-arrive-by-spring-2019/ Helloooo nikonnnn! You need to do a blackmagic and give us a peak by september, or it'll be all over red rover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Allegre Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 Nikon/Canon going FF or pro level mirrorless means developing a new pro level lens mount, which is the first step to obsoleting the massive F and EF mount lens systems. It's probably not something either company is thrilled about or in a huge hurry to do. No one really want to use adapted lenses, even if they're OEM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhnkng Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 2 hours ago, Drew Allegre said: Nikon/Canon going FF or pro level mirrorless means developing a new pro level lens mount, which is the first step to obsoleting the massive F and EF mount lens systems. It's probably not something either company is thrilled about or in a huge hurry to do. No one really want to use adapted lenses, even if they're OEM. No way, Nikon will absolutely have backwards compatibility with all existing F mount lenses. Nikon F mount has been around since the early 50s, and every F mount lens still mounts on modern day cameras (you might lose metering and stuff but the lens still works.) The only reason Nikon shooters (me included) haven't completely jumped ship is because of lenses -- if Nikon doesn't ship an F mount adaptor that works perfectly with their mirrorless system then they might as well give up now. Seriously, if you need/want FF mirrorless why wouldn't you go to Sony if you have to buy all your lenses again? I've already half moved to Fuji, so really if 2019 is how long I have to wait it makes the decision to sell all my Nikons and get a GFX that much easier... Aussie Ash and mercer 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BasiliskFilm Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 Apparently we are only 15 years away from commercially viable nuclear fusion reactors. Funny, but when I went on a tour of the Joint European Torus 35 years ago they said we were about 15-20 years ago from commercially viable nuclear fusion reactors then too. Juank, IronFilm and Marco Tecno 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danyyyel Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 I was thinking it would be at Photokina in sep/oct this year. As a Nikon shooter, I don't care that much anymore, I will get the BMPCC4k to complement my Nikon photo gear. If they come with some killer apsc hybrid, with some great auto-focus I will consider it to complement the rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Ash Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 Ten new Nikon ambassadors for USA,six are women (a little different from Nikon Japan's effort a while back !!) Unfortunately only two filmmakers : Keith Ladzinski -"Strings Productions" have produced more than twenty films. Chris Hershmam filmmaker ,photographer and musician. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Kotlos Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 Canon/Nikon have a huge market share in digital cameras. They can take their time to release an actual DSLR replacement for all the Canon/Nikon DSLR diehards which is a huge crowd waiting to drop their money. As far as features, they need to at least match what their top DSLRs offer so 1.Great EVF 2.Fast PDAF 3.Very good handling/operational speed. If Nikon makes an adapter they will have to add electronic aperture control which means motors inside the adapter --> expensive. Of course if you have the glass then it will be worth it but I am guessing something ~$400-500. In any case, I doubt they will target the video market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kisaha Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 35 minutes ago, Don Kotlos said: Canon/Nikon have a huge market share in digital cameras. They can take their time to release an actual DSLR replacement for all the Canon/Nikon DSLR diehards which is a huge crowd waiting to drop their money. As far as features, they need to at least match what their top DSLRs offer so 1.Great EVF 2.Fast PDAF 3.Very good handling/operational speed. If Nikon makes an adapter they will have to add electronic aperture control which means motors inside the adapter --> expensive. Of course if you have the glass then it will be worth it but I am guessing something ~$400-500. In any case, I doubt they will target the video market. I believe that time has passed, especially for Nikon. Sony is eating to their sales quite substantially as of late, and after many years of "disappointing" (for some, at least the ones we didn't go to Sony-land) releases, finally they are producing worthy cameras (the mkIII series has fixed most of the i and ii shortcomings, improving in color science, but still need more to do on that front, ergonomics, battery life, lenses e.t.c) and they have a complete and whole ecosystem. Canon has already a mirrorless mount and they can start building from there, and do their full frame miracle later on, and their user base is greater than Nikon anyway. Rumors say that their full frame mirrorless is already in the "wild", tested by pro photographers, if Nikon announced that their camera will be ready next spring, I bet Canon will be first to release theirs. It is a fact that Nikon produces better results with Sony sensors, they have the know-how and the color science to make amazing cameras, but the release of A7iii, A7rIII and the future A7sIII is covering the whole market, already, and a lot of people are going to move this year to Sony. It's already happening, A7iii sells quite well already, I am afraid that when Nikon is ready, the market won't be there, or at least a big portion of it. Can they rebound? I doubt it. The adapter won't be a problem, they can offer it for free, or for very little money, the adapter won't be an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Kotlos Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 That was impression as well but I think I was wrong. DSLR sales for ILC are still higher than mirrorless. And most of them are for Canon/Nikon. Again there is a huge number of people, greater than the number of mirrorless ILC users, that haven't made the switch to mirrorless yet. And when Canon/Nikon produce a DSLR replacement that at least matches the 3 points that I made above, most of the DSLR users are most likely going to switch to them. They didn't need to innovate or be fast in order to get those sales. They just had to wait for the technologies such as very good EVF, PDAF, fast sensor readout be mature enough. At the same time they can still sell cameras like the D850 to the same people that next year will sell their new mirrorless body. While Sony has come long way and currently has a very good lineup, there is still great room for improvement even with the same technologies. For example a mirrorless version of D5/1DxmkII would instantly make the A9 look like a toy even if they don't add the 20fps with no rolling shutter. And I say that as a satisfied Sony user. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 Idk if mirrorless sales will ever surpass DSLRs for Canon and Nikon. I foresee an environment where their mirrorless offerings will be 2nd cameras in serious photographer’s bags and not their go to camera. For beginners, until there is a mature, inexpensive system, I don’t see people buying mirrorless over DSLRs. Since I switched back to a DSLR, Idk if I can go back to a small mirrorless... especially now that I shoot FF. With the added weight and size of the FF DSLR, I’m able to go handheld with a non stabilized lens up to a 35mm focal length. With a mirrorless, without IBIS, it would be shake city... of course I’m still looking for a small rig or chest pod... so if anybody can recommend a good, small chest/shoulder pod or support, I’d appreciate it. Aussie Ash 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Allegre Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 I have a feeling mirrorless AF will surpass and leave SLR AF behind (if it hasn't already). If anything, that will drive the switch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 Well, I haven’t heard that the DPAF on the EOS-M is better than their DSLR counterparts... so I can’t really say if mirrorless AF has already surpassed DSLR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mokara Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 On 2018-04-30 at 9:42 PM, jhnkng said: No way, Nikon will absolutely have backwards compatibility with all existing F mount lenses. Nikon F mount has been around since the early 50s, and every F mount lens still mounts on modern day cameras (you might lose metering and stuff but the lens still works.) The only reason Nikon shooters (me included) haven't completely jumped ship is because of lenses -- if Nikon doesn't ship an F mount adaptor that works perfectly with their mirrorless system then they might as well give up now. Seriously, if you need/want FF mirrorless why wouldn't you go to Sony if you have to buy all your lenses again? I've already half moved to Fuji, so really if 2019 is how long I have to wait it makes the decision to sell all my Nikons and get a GFX that much easier... They will probably use an adapter. Native MILC lenses with a mount designed for those systems will allow them more flexibility in lens design, so not doing that would be short sighted IMO. 2 hours ago, Don Kotlos said: Canon/Nikon have a huge market share in digital cameras. They can take their time to release an actual DSLR replacement for all the Canon/Nikon DSLR diehards which is a huge crowd waiting to drop their money. As far as features, they need to at least match what their top DSLRs offer so 1.Great EVF 2.Fast PDAF 3.Very good handling/operational speed. If Nikon makes an adapter they will have to add electronic aperture control which means motors inside the adapter --> expensive. Of course if you have the glass then it will be worth it but I am guessing something ~$400-500. In any case, I doubt they will target the video market. Why would you need motors in the adapter when aperture is done by the lens in the first place? All it would be is a tube with pass through electrical connections to compensate for the loss of the mirror box, it would be very simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 8 minutes ago, Mokara said: They will probably use an adapter. Native MILC lenses with a mount designed for those systems will allow them more flexibility in lens design, so not doing that would be short sighted IMO. I think it depends who will be a Nikon mirrorless customer. If it’s established pros with thousands of dollars of lenses, an adapter is a potential weak link in the chain. If they’re in the field and that adapter breaks or malfunctions... they have zero alternatives... imo with the history of F lenses, the F mount or some kind of interchangeable mount is their only option and an adapter alone is just too much of a risk. With over 50 years of Nikkor lenses, if you can’t find a useable Nikkor lens for your videography needs... shrug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mokara Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 50 minutes ago, mercer said: Well, I haven’t heard that the DPAF on the EOS-M is better than their DSLR counterparts... so I can’t really say if mirrorless AF has already surpassed DSLR. You get edge to edge coverage with MILCs, along for far more AF points. As processors continue to improve, they will be able to handle more and more focussing points. It is just a matter of time, there is a limit to what you can do with OVF based focussing, whereas in principle you could use the entire sensor in MILCs. 10 years from now there will be no DSLRs. MILCs will do everything better and cost less to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Kotlos Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 8 minutes ago, Mokara said: Why would you need motors in the adapter when aperture is done by the lens in the first place? All it would be is a tube with pass through electrical connections to compensate for the loss of the mirror box, it would be very simple. Because the Nikon lenses have a manual lever that controls the aperture. So the adaptor needs to move that lever. Here is a Vello adapter that does that and costs $400: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1349066-REG/vello_lae_se_nfv5_nikon_f_to_sony.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mokara Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 4 minutes ago, mercer said: I think it depends who will be a Nikon mirrorless customer. If it’s established pros with thousands of dollars of lenses, an adapter is a potential weak link in the chain. If they’re in the field and that adapter breaks or malfunctions... they have zero alternatives... imo with the history of F lenses, the F mount or some kind of interchangeable mount is their only option and an adapter alone is just too much of a risk. With over 50 years of Nikkor lenses, if you can’t find a useable Nikkor lens for your videography needs... shrug. The likelihood of an adapter failing is of the same order of magnitude as a lens/camera mount failing on a camera which never sees a lens switch, which is to say very unlikely. If you were using old lenses only you would never need to remove it from the camera. I am talking about properly designed adapters here, not a rough tube from some third world manufacturer. 5 minutes ago, Don Kotlos said: Because the Nikon lenses have a manual lever that controls the aperture. So the adaptor needs to move that lever. Here is a Vello adapter that does that and costs $400: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1349066-REG/vello_lae_se_nfv5_nikon_f_to_sony.html Really? That is a throwback to the 80s, lol. My old Minolta from the 70s had a system like that. It is time they got rid of that, it will create a LOT of compatibility issues going into the future. I have never used a Nikon SLR, so I assumed they had modern lenses but apparently that is not the case. That is even more reason to update the mount, that lever is a major design weakness IMO. I think in that case there is likely no question that there will be a new mount for MILCs then, along with new lenses. They will probably make a modular adapter that has the motor for the lever for people who want to use old glass, but every new lens developed subsequently would be made for the MILC mount only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 It is my understanding that professional photographers purchase cameras based upon the native lens system. All reported rumors claim that Canon is working their hardest to make the EF system to work with a FF mirrorless. If they succeed and Nikon releases a different mount with an adapter... Well... I think it will be safe to say that Canon will pick up a bunch of new customers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Kotlos Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 54 minutes ago, Mokara said: Really? That is a throwback to the 80s, lol. I believe they developed this system for aperture control back in the 60s On the positive side, it allowed very easy & smooth control of the aperture with cheap adapters... IronFilm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotchtape Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 Come on guys at least be accurate with your info. Older Nikon lenses have the apeture lever. The recently (last year or so?) Introduced e-type lenses (still f-mount) have the aperture electronically controlled like everyone else now. Anyways technology moves on. Compatibility would be nice but I'm sure plenty of people would buy into a new mount if the lenses were lighter and better with better af. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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