Now mirrorless is a raging success. Samsung will be back

[IronFilm]

20 hours ago, Robert Collins said:

The cold reality is that Samsung is not in the digital camera market because they are in the smartphone market - and the cold reality is that Panasonic/Canon/Nikon/Sony/Olympus are in the digital camera market because they are not in the smartphone market.

Because the Panasonic CM1 doesn't count. 

[IronFilm]

This is another reason why Samsung will be happy to stick with the cellphone market:

https://petapixel.com/2018/04/20/huawei-p20-pro-vs-canon-5ds-r-im-stunned/

[TwoScoops]

^ That is crazy. If there's some kind of hotshoe adaptor for the phone I'd shoot with it just as a marketing tool. (If it could connect to my ELB400/Quadra packs.) 

[IronFilm]

https://petapixel.com/2017/08/17/godox-a1-smartphone-flash-led-trigger-now-official-70-price-tag/

 

https://petapixel.com/2017/07/22/godox-made-off-camera-flash-transmitter-smartphones/

 

Like this?

[TwoScoops]

Yeah. Those would just work with Godox stuff though, I think. I'm guessing all the big brands will come out with one of these eventually.
 

I want a hotshoe that attaches to the phone, then I can plug my Elinchrom trigger into it. That is less brand specific. Any Elinchrom, Profoto, etc trigger would work from it. 

I guess just setting the packs to photocell (slave) and using the phones crappy flash could work, too. At least for studio (might not see it outdoor).

[IronFilm]

Maybe get that plus just one Godox light, I think might be sufficient then for the others even outdoors to work just as optical slaves ?

[TwoScoops]

Yup, that would work. 

[Trek of Joy]

6 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Because the Panasonic CM1 doesn't count. 

The CM1 was an idea that was better than the hardware available at the time, plus Panasonic lacked the brand recognition and retail penetration in the phone space. If one of the current big players did something similar and got carriers to stock/market it, instead of just selling it unlocked in the wild, it would likely sell in much larger numbers and see more than a single generation.

I've always said CaNikon missed the boat by not partnering with a phone company to provide optics and color expertise. Canon could be in a position to provide phone camera sensors with DPAF and really fatten their bottom line. Instead they're on the sidelines.

[OliKMIA]

 

7 hours ago, IronFilm said:

This is another reason why Samsung will be happy to stick with the cellphone market:

https://petapixel.com/2018/04/20/huawei-p20-pro-vs-canon-5ds-r-im-stunned/

Yes, the smartphones are getting extremely good thanks to advanced algorithms. Therefore, I can't envision many smartphone users, even the enthusiast Instagramers making the move to a real camera. Why buying a large and expensive camera when your smartphone does the job?

On 4/23/2018 at 7:36 AM, Robert Collins said:

Data for digital cameras come from CIPA 2017

http://www.cipa.jp/stats/documents/e/d-201712_e.pdf

Mirrorless is 220 billion yen or US$2bn. Yes its growing but I do think it is really about splitting up the digital camera pie which is why Canon/Nikon is interested in mirrorless. Arguably Canon/Nikon/ Panasonic/Sony/Ollympus/Fuji are just fighting over a US$2bn market.

 

On 4/23/2018 at 11:56 AM, Andrew Reid said:

Then it makes sense for Samsung to expand in the camera market.

To sell higher-priced models to the millions of customers using their low-end cameras - i.e. smartphones.

It is not about the existing size of the market as measured by CIPA.

It is about the potential size in the future.

There is definitely a higher-end market for people like us but is it enough to justify Samsung' comes back especially when Nikon and Canon are getting serious about mirroless now?

If the smartphone user don't switch, where is the future market?

 

[webrunner5]

Biggest problem I see they have is the NX1 uses a APSC sensor. Not much love for that format anymore other than Fuji. It seems m4/3 ,and FF,  1"  are the thing, and even the 1" maybe in trouble with this new Sony m4/3 sensor now. I just don't see how they can begin to succeed in this day and age.

[SR]

14 hours ago, Trek of Joy said:

Ehhh, the NX1 didn't redefine photography at all, BSI was innovative, but IQ wasn't all that great because of the noise. I shot it alongside a 5d3, Canon's stills were much better.

Sir, you are, to put it mildly, talking out of your ass. I'd shot Canon for years before jumping to the NX1 as my main photography camera (commercial, portraits - studio and outdoors), and it's not even fair competition to the Canon (ever tried lifting the shadows off black hair on a Canon?). The NX1 has an insane dynamic range, and I find it does comparably well next to a Nikon or Sony. And I say this as someone who still uses the NX1, and has done photo shoots side by side with a Sony A7R2 and a Nikon D850. 

[webrunner5]

23 minutes ago, SR said:

S The NX1 has an insane dynamic range, and I find it does comparably well next to a Nikon or Sony. And I say this as someone who still uses the NX1, and has done photo shoots side by side with a Sony A7R2 and a Nikon D850. 

Insane Dynamic Range!! Yeah, like 10.1 stops in Video. But around 13.2 stops in Photo. So higher than a Canon, but not a Nikon.

https://***URL not allowed***/lab-review-samsung-nx1-video-mode-frustrating/

[sanveer]

55 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

 

https://***URL not allowed***/lab-review-samsung-nx1-video-mode-frustrating/

Firstly this review was with the old firmware and Samsung addressed most of the issues with the later firmware. 

The credibility of Cinema5D is probably less than Mata Hari the double agent. And their ability to take criticism is worse than Uwe Boll. 

The sheer number of rude comments on this very post of Cinema5D highlights the very problem with brazenly biased reviews. They wrote a scathing initial review of the GH5 too calling the Vlog a joke or unusable or something on those lines. I believe Panasonic threatened to sue, so they took down their article to re-write It, removing all the vitriolic rubbish that had made itself to the initial review.

This kind of shamelessly biased writing dismisses any hope of credibility.

 

55 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Insane Dynamic Range!! Yeah, like 10.1 stops in Video. But around 13.2 stops in Photo. So higher than a Canon, but not a Nikon.

That's more than a lot of full frames of that time (including the 5D Mark ii and iii). 

[SR]

34 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Insane Dynamic Range!! Yeah, like 10.1 stops in Video. But around 13.2 stops in Photo. So higher than a Canon, but not a Nikon.

https://***URL not allowed***/lab-review-samsung-nx1-video-mode-frustrating/

Yea, anyone with Google could tell you that. We were talking about stills, not video. And I found it rare for the Sony/Nikon to outshine the NX1 for stills in most real world situations (except resolution). But you could always tell with the Canon, because the shadows were unforgiving (not that you couldn't work around it, which most of us did for years). That's my point.

[sanveer]

14 hours ago, Trek of Joy said:

Ehhh, the NX1 didn't redefine photography at all, BSI was innovative, but IQ wasn't all that great because of the noise. I shot it alongside a 5d3, Canon's stills were much better

They probably made 2 production versions of the 5d3. One for you, and one for everyone else. 

[webrunner5]

1 hour ago, SR said:

Yea, anyone with Google could tell you that. We were talking about stills, not video. And I found it rare for the Sony/Nikon to outshine the NX1 for stills in most real world situations (except resolution). But you could always tell with the Canon, because the shadows were unforgiving (not that you couldn't work around it, which most of us did for years). That's my point.

Well it doesn't matter, because only the people on here must have liked it because it went tits up. I always thought it was too much over the top colors, saturation wise. Olympus like. But yeah video wise it was pretty damn impressive. Still is. DR ain't everything.

[Trek of Joy]

2 hours ago, sanveer said:

They probably made 2 production versions of the 5d3. One for you, and one for everyone else. 

Or maybe one for those with eyes and one for you. Not exactly earth shattering as seen below, the NX1's performance at moderate ISO's is pretty bad. And that's compared to a Canon released in 2012. You said it "redefined photography" - all it did was redefine the amount of noise reduction one had to apply to raw files. Combine that with the fact that the system lacked fast lenses to help keep ISO's down - F/1.4 and faster are easy to find in EF mount - and you have a good stills camera, but not great. But I liked where they were heading so I still bought into the system. I got out when there were whispers of them shuttering the NX line and moved to a vastly superior stills and very good video body - the a7r2. I'd still have my NX1 if Samsung was in the game and actively producing new lenses/bodies.

3 hours ago, SR said:

Sir, you are, to put it mildly, talking out of your ass. I'd shot Canon for years before jumping to the NX1 as my main photography camera (commercial, portraits - studio and outdoors), and it's not even fair competition to the Canon (ever tried lifting the shadows off black hair on a Canon?). The NX1 has an insane dynamic range, and I find it does comparably well next to a Nikon or Sony. And I say this as someone who still uses the NX1, and has done photo shoots side by side with a Sony A7R2 and a Nikon D850. 

No I'm not talking out of my ass. And the NX1 is easily over a stop behind the a7r2. It is what it is, a good APS-c camera from a few years ago that - like all APS-c cameras - lags behind FF from the same generation. The noise is just awful, in both stills and video and there's really no way around it. The d850 has superior DR as well, the NX1 is simply good for APS-c, and on par with Sony's APS-c offerings. Calling it anything else is hyperbole.

But I haven't touched any NX1 files in a couple years. I'll dig some out from an old storage drive and revisit with LR CC to see how they compare to my current lineup of the a7r2/s2 and Fuji XT2.

[IronFilm]

4 hours ago, OliKMIA said:

Yes, the smartphones are getting extremely good thanks to advanced algorithms. Therefore, I can't envision many smartphone users, even the enthusiast Instagramers making the move to a real camera. Why buying a large and expensive camera when your smartphone does the job?

I take waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more photos and videos with my smartphones than with my dedicated cameras!

And that is me, he who owns about a million DSLRs/mirrorless.

[Andrew Reid]

The dynamic range charts are meaningless because when you push for the maximum dynamic range, your colour falls apart and there's no contrast shaping the scene.

High dynamic range makes flat lighting look worse.

It is only useful in a handful of situations.

The NX1's stills and sensor are just fine. I've had results from it to rival full frame.

58 minutes ago, Trek of Joy said:

Considering the 5D Mark III has an absolutely enormous full frame sensor and only 22MP, you'd think it would be further ahead than just 1 stop difference shown in the ISO 3200 result above.

I don't know what you're seeing, but I'm seeing a 28MP APS-C sensor in the NX1 with very usable ISO 3200 and much better resolution than the Canon... at one third the cost with added 4K video and OLED screen and EVF!

[IronFilm]

3 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

Insane Dynamic Range!! Yeah, like 10.1 stops in Video. But around 13.2 stops in Photo. So higher than a Canon, but not a Nikon.

https://***URL not allowed***/lab-review-samsung-nx1-video-mode-frustrating/

Sad to see that Cinema5D is still spreading their damage even today. 
That review in particular along with many others is one reason why I just stopped reading Cinema5D. 
Wonder how many sales of the Samsung NX1 that Cinema5D caused damage to?