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Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

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15 minutes ago, Don Kotlos said:

There is a guy named LakeDriftwood that claims:

"I've just confirmed with an industry source that, Pocket Cinema Camera 4K uses the same sensor as GH5S, the IMX294CJK sensor supplied by Sony Semiconductor." 

I don't know him or if what he claims is true, but I find it very likely. 

That mode is not being supported by video cameras for that reason. This is be reserved for machine vision cameras that use this sensor and need this capability. 

Yes the 1080p is what I am most interested as well since in normal frame rates it is downsampled from 4K. So now in the consumer market we have the GH5/s, A7s* and now the pocketv2 that can produce excellent aliasing/moire free 1080p in camera, but the pocket also offers a much much better codec with little or no sign of digital compression. Not to mention the built in xlr support. 

 

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

About shipment, the CEO said during the presentation that September is not over promising , a staff member also said in one of the video that the camera will hopefully come a bit earlier .

I guess they will have a large stock in September but might start shipping a low amount of copies earlier.

I personally did a preorder in the uk, if the camera was 3k usd I think I would still have ordered one, on the paper that almost the perfect camera for my type of work, and that stupidly cheap.

Now I need to get some M4/3 glass ....

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Great spec, but can BM deliver a stable durable product that doesn’t degrade IQ as it overheats, we’ll see. I bet it will ship later than BM claim, based on previous experience, and will it ship as a beta product, we’ll see. 

Hopefully Panasonic will upgrade GH5S to HDMI raw for the NinjaV Prores Raw recorder, or quickly release a raw version. Presume A7Siii will do raw over HDMI.

This should force Panasonic and Sony to stop gimping the lower end, or at least gimp less than they would have liked to otherwise. Any new release now needs prores raw internal 60p to be taken seriously.

 

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After letting this bombshell of a release settle for almost a day now, I must say I am still pretty damn excited. What is offered at this price point seems unfathomable. I honestly don’t know how they will be making a profit off of this camera... but that isn’t my problem.

Now I’ve been thinking about some of the obvious features and have made a few assumptions based on previous BM cameras...

Dual ISO at 800 and 3200... this is huge but most likely, due to noise and DR, they will be the only two ISOs you would shoot at. I personally think it’s awesome to get that extra lowlight ISO but other people who haven’t shot with a BM camera may want to be aware of the practical ISOs on BM cameras if the 25,000 number is a huge selling point to them.

IR Cut Filter??? There have been some claims that this may be the same sensor that’s inside the GH5s? If so, does that mean we won’t need an IR Cut filter?

Waveform, False Color, Baked in LUTs... this is great... really awesome. I will probably be using this as a ProRes only camera, so Zebras set at 90 have been the go to setting for quick exposure on BM cameras... but if there is a quick solution to turn on False Color, then this becomes an invaluable tool at this price point. And finally the ability to not only load viewing LUTs but being able to bake them in is pretty awesome for quick turnaround... of course how this will affect the dynamic range of your shots should be considered before you start throwing LUTS at your footage before you hit record.... that’s where the waveform monitor will come in handy.

So just these features alone are pretty amazing.

There’s been a lot of talk about how this camera will affect the marketplace and in all honesty it shouldn’t. This looks like a shiny new toy but this IS A CINEMA camera. If you are an event videographer or a real estate videographer or a wedding videographer, there are better options out there and you will probably be let down. BM makes amazing cameras but the images need to be caressed during production and after. So your GH5 or C100 or FF Sony is not obsolete.

35 minutes ago, jonpais said:

In the interest of another opinion regarding visual effects, which one member here claims is a nightmare with the GH5, here is what Thomas Smet has to say,

Stephen Fleet is a VFX supervisor for a lot of TV shows including Marvels Iron Fist and he loves the GH5 for shooting VFX plates. He is likely more critical of compression and color quality out of any of you and yet loves the GH5 even over the GH5S due to the higher resolution sensor and the out of the box quality it delivers for intense VFX work. So the argument that you need raw for VFX is complete BS. Stephen even found the 150mbps on the GH5 to be just as good for effects work as the 400mbps. That isn't to say the Pocket wouldn't be impressive as well but that the GH5 is still an amazing choice.

 

I think your use of italics is a little misleading here? But you’re right the GH5 is awesome and you are getting nice work with it so there really isn’t a need for you to go out and buy the Pocket II. I think you will be highly disappointed with it. 

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So excited to start seeing all the third party accessories to come now! @IronFilm, in response to your reply, I am curious to see what metabones might cook up for this one specifically as Simon Westland says in the youtube interview by slashcam. But also curious to see cages, and what pistol grip gimbals might be able to fit it etc.

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38 minutes ago, Don Kotlos said:

There is a guy named LukeDriftwood that claims:

"I've just confirmed with an industry source that, Pocket Cinema Camera 4K uses the same sensor as GH5S, the IMX294CJK sensor supplied by Sony Semiconductor." 

I don't know him or if what he claims is true, but I find it very likely. 

Interesting. Absolutely no idea if it is true of either the GH5s or BMPCC but here is the pdf flyer of the sensor.

https://www.sony-semicon.co.jp/products_en/IS/sensor0/img/product/cmos/IMX294CJK_Flyer.pdf

Couple of points.

1) It is a standard 4:3 sensor with a 21.63mm diagonal - so if it is in the GH5s it isnt using an 'oversized' sensor as many people had indicated.

2) The sensor is capable of 4k/120 although only in 10 bit (as opposed to 12) 

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24 minutes ago, mercer said:

After letting this bombshell of a release settle for almost a day now, I must say I am still pretty damn excited. What is offered at this price point seems unfathomable. I honestly don’t know how they will be making a profit off of this camera... but that isn’t my problem.

Now I’ve been thinking about some of the obvious features and have made a few assumptions based on previous BM cameras...

Dual ISO at 800 and 3200... this is huge but most likely, due to noise and DR, they will be the only two ISOs you would shoot at. I personally think it’s awesome to get that extra lowlight ISO but other people who haven’t shot with a BM camera may want to be aware of the practical ISOs on BM cameras if the 25,000 number is a huge selling point to them.

IR Cut Filter??? There have been some claims that this may be the same sensor that’s inside the GH5s? If so, does that mean we won’t need an IR Cut filter?

Waveform, False Color, Baked in LUTs... this is great... really awesome. I will probably be using this as a ProRes only camera, so Zebras set at 90 have been the go to setting for quick exposure on BM cameras... but if there is a quick solution to turn on False Color, then this becomes an invaluable tool at this price point. And finally the ability to not only load viewing LUTs but being able to bake them in is pretty awesome for quick turnaround... of course how this will affect the dynamic range of your shots should be considered before you start throwing LUTS at your footage before you hit record.... that’s where the waveform monitor will come in handy.

So just these features alone are pretty amazing.

There’s been a lot of talk about how this camera will affect the marketplace and in all honesty it shouldn’t. This looks like a shiny new toy but this IS A CINEMA camera. If you are an event videographer or a real estate videographer or a wedding videographer, there are better options out there and you will probably be let down. BM makes amazing cameras but the images need to be caressed during production and after. So your GH5 or C100 or FF Sony is not obsolete.

I think your use of italics is a little misleading here? But you’re right the GH5 is awesome and you are getting nice work with it so there really isn’t a need for you to go out and buy the Pocket II. I think you will be highly disappointed with it. 

The italics are because I don’t know how to quote from another website. Got no idea what you are referring to by accusing me of deceiving anyone.

The Pocket does not have a waveform monitor.

And regardless of your condescending and frankly hostile attitude, I will probably be picking up the Pocket.

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2 minutes ago, Robert Collins said:

Interesting. Absolutely no idea if it is true of either the GH5s or BMPCC but here is the pdf flyer of the sensor.

https://www.sony-semicon.co.jp/products_en/IS/sensor0/img/product/cmos/IMX294CJK_Flyer.pdf

Couple of points.

1) It is a standard 4:3 sensor with a 21.63mm diagonal - so if it is in the GH5s it isnt using an 'oversized' sensor as many people had indicated.

2) The sensor is capable of 4k/120 although only in 10 bit (as opposed to 12) 

https://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic/26353-kinefinity-terra-4k-has-landed/?do=findComment&comment=232457

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24 minutes ago, Robert Collins said:

Interesting. Absolutely no idea if it is true of either the GH5s or BMPCC but here is the pdf flyer of the sensor.

https://www.sony-semicon.co.jp/products_en/IS/sensor0/img/product/cmos/IMX294CJK_Flyer.pdf

Couple of points.

1) It is a standard 4:3 sensor with a 21.63mm diagonal - so if it is in the GH5s it isnt using an 'oversized' sensor as many people had indicated.

2) The sensor is capable of 4k/120 although only in 10 bit (as opposed to 12) 

By "standard 4:3" that means it's  21.63 diagonal in all aspect ratios... Multi-aspect sensor.

Supports 17:9 aspect for 4096 x 2160 DCI 4K.

To do 21.63 diagonal in both 17:9 and 4:3, you need the extra width (19.3mm)

Yep, I think this is the same sensor used in GH5S and Pocket 4K.

Yes 4K 120fps capable... See the E2 cam...But that needs external recorder, no? I think the internal processing power required for that is currently out of bounds of small affordable cameras.

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I do hope Blackmagic have already bought up a boatload of the sensors.

I can just see Panasonic getting on the phone to Sony this morning and saying "You know that IMX294CJK sensor that we buy off you for our GH5 cameras? How many have you got?....Right, we're on our way there now....We'll take the lot" ;)

 

freight-semi-truck-panasonic-corporation-logo-driving-along-forest-road-editorial-d-rendering-90436177.jpg

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28 minutes ago, jonpais said:

The italics are because I don’t know how to quote from another website. Got no idea what you are referring to by accusing me of deceiving anyone.

The Pocket does not have a waveform monitor.

And regardless of your condescending and frankly hostile attitude, I will probably be picking up the Pocket.

“Hostile attitude” hahahahahahahahahahaha... you are losing it Jon. There was nothing condescending or hostile about my comment... you seem to be littering this thread with spiteful comments about the GH5 and people’s opinion of it, but in a lot of ways you’re right... the GH5 is great and capable of many things, so for most people’s needs, it is the better camera... what is so hostile or condescending about that?

According to BH, the camera has a waveform monitor and false color.

As far as the italics, the last part of the italicized portion of your statement reads as if it’s your opinion and not a quote from that person since he would have to start referring to himself in his quote? If I am wrong, then I apologize.

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5 minutes ago, mercer said:

“Hostile attitude” hahahahahahahahahahaha... you are losing it Jon. There was nothing condescending or hostile about my comment... you seem to be littering this thread with spiteful comments about the GH5 and people’s opinion of it, but in a lot of ways you’re right... the GH5 is great and capable of many things, so for most people’s needs, it is the better camera... what is so hostile or condescending about that?

According to BH, the camera has a waveform monitor and false color.

As far as the italics, the last part of the italicized portion of your statement reads as if it’s your opinion and not a quote from that person since he would have to start referring to himself in his quote? If I am wrong, then I apologize.

Gaslighting again and twisting my words around.

I never made any spiteful comments about the GH5, what are you talking about, man?

Not once in this forum have I ever said one camera was better than any other.

The phrasing and italics clearly indicate those were not my own words.

And if I want camera advice from you, I'll ask for it.

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7 minutes ago, mercer said:

“Hostile attitude” hahahahahahahahahahaha... you are losing it Jon. There was nothing condescending or hostile about my comment... you seem to be littering this thread with spiteful comments about the GH5 and people’s opinion of it, but in a lot of ways you’re right... the GH5 is great and capable of many things, so for most people’s needs, it is the better camera... what is so hostile or condescending about that?

I agree with you mercer, sorry Jon. Been skipping your comments cause all you keep talking about is that damn GH5. Little Pana-fanboy on the line? Can we stick to the subject OF Pocket4K here?

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3 minutes ago, Turboguard said:

I agree with you mercer, sorry Jon. Been skipping your comments cause all you keep talking about is that damn GH5. Little Pana-fanboy on the line? Can we stick to the subject OF Pocket4K here?

Let's stick to the Pocket and stop trashing the Panasonic at every opportunity. Deal.

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2 minutes ago, forofilms said:

If you can't charge from an external source while simultaneously recording to an external drive then it kind of defeats the purpose of having the feature to be able to long-record via usb-c. 

Get a DC to USBC? Use the USBC for HDD and DC to charge from powerbank?

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24 minutes ago, jonpais said:

Gaslighting again and twisting my words around.

I never made any spiteful comments about the GH5, what are you talking about, man?

Not once in this forum have I ever said one camera was better than any other.

The phrasing and italics clearly indicate those were not my own words.

And if I want camera advice from you, I'll ask for it.

Oh God, here we go... you have been making spiteful comments about other people’s comments on the GH5... 

Sorry I was wrong about the italics... I reread it and realized you were quoting someone who was quoting someone... my bad.

And finally... Jesus Christ Jon... which is it... you love the GH5 and need no other camera because it’s better than the Pocket II or do you want the Pocket II? Seriously, these oddball conversations you are having are becoming nonsensical.

The funny thing is that I can completely skip your portion of the conversation... which is a lot and still follow the general thread. 

And honestly I really don’t care if you take my camera advice. But for someone that goes to such lengths to defend the GH5, then why bother spending more money on another camera... it’s not like getting a Pocket II is going to change your videos that much. You are putting quality work out with the GH5 and from my experience, BM cameras are different beasts.

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2 minutes ago, forofilms said:

If you can't charge from an external source while simultaneously recording to an external drive then it kind of defeats the purpose of having the feature to be able to long-record via usb-c. 

It still has an external power input though?

I presume you could use a usb-c hub as well?

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Just now, BTM_Pix said:

It still has an external power input though?

I presume you could use a usb-c hub as well?

Yes, I suppose you could power it through DC but that would kill the run-and-gun capability. 

I wonder about the hub idea...would be surprised if you could power and record simultaneously through the same port. 

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