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26 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Thank you for your cutting edge satire, very original.


Original... No, but the proverbial phrase fits your situation like a glove as you called out Dan Sherman for being upset after the emotional mess you've displayed here throughout the last two days.

 

 

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They say: Never meet your heroes, because they're sure to disappoint you.... I think it's more like: Never meet your heroes, because they're really human just like you and everyone else on the forum.  I hope this forum is big enough for both Andrew and John or John and Andrew, whichever, because I will miss hearing from both of them on a regular basis.  Maybe a vitural hand share over PM could happen and we could get back to obsessing over a camera that most of us have yet to hold in our hands.  

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I seem to recall those early BM cameras had very mixed reviews for reliability, and they kept obsoleting their own cameras with future announcements when some people were still stuck waiting for the current one to ship.  The price is certainly cheap for those specs... maybe too cheap ?  Now that full frame Panasonic looks a completely different story.  Andrew, off-topic I know, but do you follow Apertus, as I believe there will be Magic Lantern on steroids when that ships.

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21 minutes ago, mercer said:

But in the end, they are both artists and artists are passionate, honest and sensitive people... they must be to put themselves and their work out into the world for scrutiny

Well said Mercer, I hope in some days/weeks after the emotional break out settle down, @Andrew Reid and @John Brawley will talk to each other and resolve this unfortunate exchange of rude words in the best way possible.....lossing JB comments will certainly be missed.

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5 hours ago, John Brawley said:

Delete every single post of mine.  All the IP that I’ve posted and shared on this forum? All those posts where I’ve shared my knowledge and experience.  


Nooooooooooooooooooo............ don't do that! I very much greatly enjoy reading JB's contributions. And I'm 100% certain that in the future I'll find myself going back and reading them again when I'm looking something up. 

 

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2 hours ago, matthere said:

Laowa 7.5mm f2 might be worth a look.

Or go much much cheaper with the SLR Magic 8mm f4! I'm quite liking mine
But two stops slower, so you'll be testing the BMPCC4K's low light ability. 

 

2 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

Oh come on. There has never been a more Cult Following camera than the BMPCC. Probably me included. I look at BM as a poor mans Red camera.


I thought it is Kinefinity who are the "poor man's RED"?! 😉

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3 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Or go much much cheaper with the SLR Magic 8mm f4! I'm quite liking mine
But two stops slower, so you'll be testing the BMPCC4K's low light ability. 

 


I thought it is Kinefinity who are the "poor man's RED"?! 😉

Well from what i have seen they have the possibility to be that. But they have to get a lot more cameras out than they have. It is a whole new world out there this year no doubt. I don't envy anyone on having to make a big time commitment product wise!

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42 minutes ago, Sid said:

do you follow Apertus, as I believe there will be Magic Lantern on steroids when that ships.

"when"
More like "if" it ships?
I wouldn't hold your breath of that. 
Is a very very tough task to develop a camera, Apertus has been working on this a long time. They'll be outgunned by those companies which have a faster development cycle. 

 

43 minutes ago, Sid said:

and they kept obsoleting their own cameras with future announcements

I view this as a kinda good thing, I hope all companies are striving to make their products "obsolete"! (but remember, you can still keep on shooting with "obsolete" products! I still even use my ancient Panasonic GH1 cameras a few times a year)

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3 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

At the end of the day, I reflect on the course this thread just took and I regret it. I stand by my hurt over the camera and snub, but I regret what's happened. Take what you read from everyone on forums with a pinch of salt including even yourself whilst saying it! And including me. I am not myself on the internet sometimes, nobody is. The internet is a weird simulation which is causing issues in real society across the globe all the time. It's not real life, it's a machine-assisted facsimile of it. John Brawley and I would not have behaved the same in real life. The internet is an argument generator and a distorted mirror and I might indeed have to shortly go to the pub and have a stiff drink.

@Andrew Reid, I appreciate that reflection and I would eventually bring down the blog post on @John Brawley, if I were you. As a long time reader, I stuck around because the tone and direction of EOSHD was always able to put a finger on what I felt was missing in the camera lineups for indie filmmakers. But I also got to witness a self-destructive tendency that no one here could stop you from, even if most of us do want your site to flourish. Because it's a popular camera website, you have more to lose. Not just as a blogger, but even personally as a filmmaker. That is the nature of these very public forums. And through the years, I've come to believe it is possible to be fair without the pugilism (although regrettably it'd be far less entertaining). But maybe that's what's needed to move forward: Focus on the good, cut the excess.

And I won't be canceling my preorder, as I feel it's a culmination of those years of reading EOSHD, waiting for a DSLR-sized camera that could deliver uncompromising cinematic images. And you should rise above the politics, whether real or not, and still review the camera when it arrives. Regardless of everything, I think yours would be the review I'd be waiting for the most. Not because I'm sentimental about EOSHD, but because I know it's gonna be honest.

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7 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Yeah no IBIS is a bit of a deal breaker for me as well. I am just writing a first look at the E-M10 III with 5 axis IBIS, which I just bought from Amazon today. Was only 500 euros but will be interesting to compare to the GH5 considering the big price difference. If it helps out those searching for something really good in the midst of an era of pushing prices up and going high-end, then job done. Unlike the GX9 it doesn't have any extra crop in 4K. Full width M43 2x crop and 1.28x crop with Speed Booster XL. That is a first for the 16MP sensor in an Olympus and I've never had such great out of the camera colour as I have here for 500 euros.


I"ll be curious to hear your thoughts of the Olympus E-M10 III vs Panasonic G80, which I see as its closest competitor in price/features/specs. 

Been doing most of my vlogging with a Samsung S7 (or heck, even worse looking smartphone camera's! Ick), and very occasionally the original BMPCC (but lack of a flip out screen and the bigger crop than usual for MFT makes the BMPCC a tricky choice for selfie vlogging). 

Going to commit to try and up my standards by using my Panasonic G6 more often instead of my S7 cellphone, especially as I've now finally got the SLR Magic 8mm f4. 

Which is why the Panasonic G80 tempts, mainly for the IBIS for all the handheld selfie shooting I'd do. (the 4K upgrade would be nice too, but is a minor consideration, I don't even shoot in 4K with my S7 most of the time) 

However I'm waiting on Panasonic to release a G80 update, it has been two years since the G80 was announced!! Not because I want to buy the next model, but because I want to see a bigger drop on G80 prices on eBay 😉 As I'm a cheap bastard, and I know the G80 would see no other usage other than purely personal use for my YouTube vlog. 

 

10 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Olympus E-M10 III vs Panasonic G80, which I see as its closest competitor in price/features/specs. 


Edit: oh darn, just realized the Olympus' screen folds out the "wrong" way. Which makes it a no go for my specific purposes, and not a competitor at all for the G80

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4 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

At the end of the day, I reflect on the course this thread just took and I regret it. I stand by my hurt over the camera and snub, but I regret what's happened. Take what you read from everyone on forums with a pinch of salt including even yourself whilst saying it! And including me. I am not myself on the internet sometimes, nobody is. The internet is a weird simulation which is causing issues in real society across the globe all the time. It's not real life, it's a machine-assisted facsimile of it. John Brawley and I would not have behaved the same in real life. The internet is an argument generator and a distorted mirror and I might indeed have to shortly go to the pub and have a stiff drink.

Sometimes the most interesting and useful insights (like this one from Andrew) require traversing some difficult ground to get there. With this sort of reflection the preceding discomfort is almost always worth the effort. 

To explore Andrew's thoughts here a little further: perhaps in addition to being a rather poor 'facsimile' of life, it seems to me the internet becomes at times a powerful and distorting "amplifier" of people's emotional states, but mostly only of those frequencies that deal with anger, fear, rejection, resentment etc. I don't think anyone is immune from this effect, and I suspect the more invested in a community or issue, the more pronounced the effect.

I agree that the internet's amplifying effects can have far reaching ramifications, especially when taking into account that the responses are preserved in writing, and when multiplied across thousands and perhaps millions of people on any given issue. This must at least be part of the reason for the recent exacerbation in polarisation that we see in politics (uh oh - sorry to mention the "P" word).

But more to the point, perhaps it can help us to simply understand the sometimes difficult dynamics of communication from a human perspective, and especially of online communication where our brains lack the important cues given by real face-to-face interaction. Perhaps the lesson is that in understanding what is happening, it is easier not to put too much importance on the details of what is said, and to recognise that we are all basically the same in this regard. In acknowledging our nature as fragile humans it is far easier to be forgiving on ourselves and others for apparent transgressions, to allow some breathing space for reflection, and then to get back to the task at hand.

So Andrew, in regards to the camera in question, I think that if there are matters about its quality and usefulness you would like resolved, it would not surprise me at all if you do get your hands on it one way or another. And if and when you do, I'll look forwards to your insightful review of it.

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On ‎9‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 9:52 AM, John Brawley said:

What a shame.

Who are these "deep state" BMD insiders that are here pushing an agenda ? Myself and Hook.  Who else ?  What do you guys think, there's a plot and conspiracy ?  You guys don't wat these contributions I guess ?

I'm here because I've been a member here for years and I'm on many camera forums and this is just another one I like to read and contribute to where I can.

I want to know where all the clowns that were saying on this thread that the world was going to end because BMD didn't have any footage out yet and that definitely meant something was very wrong and the shipping date would be missed.

All I've seen so far is that a planned marketing campaign by BMD that has gone off the way they intended.

They commissioned some actual filmmakers (not bloggers or camera reviewers) that make certain types of film (natural history, action sports, nature) to make some films and then they released them and the camera originals.

Then they gave some cameras, complete with some boxes as if they were new to some secondary users, and whilst having them also under NDA, got them to shoot some test footage and allowed some of them to release that footage.  Again.  Not reviewers.  Not bloggers.

About a thousand reviewers and camera jockeys have done a bunch of made up comparisons and VLOGS based on existing footage. (hey I love seeing my footage being butchered by grading nerds)

Think about it.

No blogger or reviewer ANYWHERE has gotten a functioning camera to shoot with as far as I can tell.  Because that's not what BMD want to do with their marketing of this camera.  This isjust marketing 101. 

They need people using the cameras in the many difference specific sectors of the market will use the camera.  Camera reviews aren't part of that plan. (though it hasn't stopped people doing it based on existing footage)

Until it's shipping, it's their choice to give it to whomever they want.

I'm tired of this entitled bullshit.  

I recently left a few facebook groups I was on for this camera, and I'm doing the same here.  Frankly it's juvenile and I don't need the agro I sure hate explaining what should be obvious.

There's no slight.  

BMD have a marketing department and they have a plan and it doesn't involve forums, bloggers or camera reviewers.  That's not a snub, that's just them marketing the product in the way that they see fit.

JB 

 

They can invite anyone they want to their event but it seems they DID invite some Vloggers and reviewers to that Manchester event after all (posts by Cinema5d and CameraJabber on Youtube).

Seems to me they SHOULD have invited Andrew.     They didn't, so how he reacts is up to him.

I did want an original Pocket camera when it came out but I only really heard about it on this site first and then only a little elsewhere after that.     

BMD seems to have grown up as a company and now seems to be after a market far beyond where it started so maybe thinks it doesn't need the likes of Andrew Reid, I would suggest otherwise.

I would also suggest deleting the last twenty or thirty pages to this thread and starting again.      

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45 minutes ago, noone said:

BMD seems to have grown up as a company and now seems to be after a market far beyond where it started so maybe thinks it doesn't need the likes of Andrew Reid, I would suggest otherwise.

 

Yep. To me the ineptness that they have shown is a troubling trend. Yeah they make pretty killer products at a really fair price. But what good is it all if no coordination to amount to crap  seems to be the outcome of it.

True specs wise in a lot of areas are scare as hens teeth. When the hell it is Really going to ship?  This thing could be the best thing since sliced bread, but we don't know when the delivery man is going to show up, or what the hell bread we are getting, let alone how it is going to be sliced. Strange goings on.

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