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Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

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I don't know but that might be theoretical performance.  I've never seen anyone shooting kinefinity terra 4K or GH5s that has been able to produce even remotely that dynamic range.  Even using the same parameters that can produce 18 stops on RED cameras (which is a ludicrous claim) I don't think you can get over 13.

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3 hours ago, Savannah Miller said:

I don't know but that might be theoretical performance.  I've never seen anyone shooting kinefinity terra 4K or GH5s that has been able to produce even remotely that dynamic range.  Even using the same parameters that can produce 18 stops on RED cameras (which is a ludicrous claim) I don't think you can get over 13.

18 stops is possible on the 8K W model. They don't charge $54,500.00 for 13 stops! And hell that is just for the Brain!

Look at the test and see it with your own eyes. Phil Holland, is one of the Moderators on Reduser.net. He is one smart guy. I Believe his test.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?154113-RED-8K-Sensor-Test-2017

Heck I can get nearly 13 true stops, Maybe a bit more on my Sony A7s in SLog 2. And no, no GH5 has 12 stops in reality. More like 11.5 tops.

https://nofilmschool.com/2014/07/sony-a7s-dynamic-range-arri-alexa-amira

 

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On 6/22/2018 at 2:58 PM, Damphousse said:

can see how that argument would work... in a parallel universe where we hadn't already seen the prerelease footage.

The footage is bad.  We all agree on that. 

I wouldn't agree, I'd just say it hasn't been put in capable hands yet. 

`

On 6/22/2018 at 2:58 PM, Damphousse said:

And the company has a terrible track record. 

Ditto. I do not see that Z Cam has a terrible track record (certainly not vs its main competition). 

 

On 6/22/2018 at 6:11 PM, John Brawley said:

They did something similar with the pocket about 18 months after they launched if I remember.  In fact I think it dropped even more than that.


It was  half price sale of the BMPCC for $500, is when I purchased my BMPCC. 
And even secondhand prices now today in 2018 are still higher than that brand new price I paid for my BMPCC!!
Maybe finally with the BMPCC4K launch we'll see secondhand BMPCC prices full under $500 on eBay, all these years later. 

On 6/22/2018 at 9:40 PM, Bioskop.Inc said:

Yep, this is what I'll be waiting for - they dropped the Pocket to half price & it was a steal, no contest!

BMD has never ever done this for any other camera. 

I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for that to happen for the BMPCC4K. 

 

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On 6/21/2018 at 4:51 PM, helium said:

As for the color in your sample -- sorry, but to my eyes, it looks like barely graded log footage.  And, given the lighting and shooting style, it's Impossible to assess much of anything, unless the object is to achieve just that -- an unlit log look.   

Here's a sample comparison between the Rec709 footage (as used in the video / created with Resolve's Color Space Transformation tool) and the original log footage [i.e. CinemaDNG interpreted as Blackmagic Film log]:

 

Untitled_1.7.1.POST.jpg

Untitled_1.7.2.POST.jpg

Untitled_1.9.1.jpg

Untitled_1.9.2.POST.jpg

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1 hour ago, cantsin said:

Here's a sample comparison between the Rec709 footage (as used in the video / created with Resolve's Color Space Transformation tool) and the original log footage [i.e. CinemaDNG interpreted as Blackmagic Film log]:

 

 

 

 

 

I agree they're not identical, but the way in which you've processed the raw files doesn't, as I see it, reveal much about the color science of the camera.  I don't think you'd need a  BMD camera to achieve the log look you have here. 

Then again, maybe it's my eyes.  It's impossible to say whether that stolen BMPCC 4K footage from NAB means anything for what actually gets shipped, but you had people critiquing the color as if it were normalized rec 709.  To me, it was plainly some variant of log, which required processing and color shifts.

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20 minutes ago, helium said:

I agree they're not identical, but the way in which you've processed the raw files doesn't, as I see it, reveal much about the color science of the camera.  I don't think you'd need a  BMD camera to achieve the log look you have here. 

It's not a log look, it's a generic, high-dynamic range Rec709 look using Blackmagic's default color science. In the prosumer price range of the BM Pocket, a few cameras can do this (Fuji, Canon and Nikon for example), but only in 8bit without the possibilities of heavily grading/tweaking the image.

I posted this footage here because @jonpais was complaining about the over-graded/-stylized BM Pocket footage that he had seen so far. 

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20 minutes ago, cantsin said:

It's not a log look, it's a generic, high-dynamic range Rec709 look using Blackmagic's default color science. In the prosumer price range of the BM Pocket, a few cameras can do this (Fuji, Canon and Nikon for example), but only in 8bit without the possibilities of heavily grading/tweaking the image.

I 

Call it what you like, but it's a low contrast/low saturation style which resembles log footage -- and which has since become common in both low budget and higher end feature film material.

I don't know what Jon Pais objected to it, but does anyone really expect to see professionally graded footage routinely posted on youtube and similar (and as seen on an uncalibrated computer screen?) 

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12 minutes ago, helium said:

Call it what you like, but it's a low contrast/low saturation style which resembles log footage -- and which has since become common in both low budget and higher end feature film material.

In the sample screengrabs, the blue hair has 60% saturation in the blue channel, and the sweater in the background 60% saturation in the red channel... With more, you'd be in Technicolor or cartoon territory.

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A quote from the review of Terra 4K: https://nofilmschool.com/2018/04/review-kinefinity-terra-4k-offers-bang-buck

Quote

Dynamic Range. This is a big one. Kinefinity claims 14 stops. I’ve attended one test personally and have seen the results of another online that both peg the dynamic range of the Terra 4K at 12 2/3 stops, more than a stop lower than the manufacturer’s claim. RAW recording has not yet been enabled via firmware update so it’s possible that the addition of RAW will add some more highlight retention, but the camera does not seem to be able to record the claimed 14 stops that were part of my buying decision. This is disappointing. I reached out to Kinefinity for comment and they’ve said that an engineer is investigating the issue.

brmex-rrdesk.jpg?itok=rm3G-jD1

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1 hour ago, jonpais said:

He doesn‚Äôt know what I objected to, but he‚Äôs certain it was on YT and that I watched on an uncalibrated monitor. And he keeps saying @cantsin¬†‚Äės video¬†looks like log footage even though it clearly does not.¬†

Yes, I'm a deluded clairvoyant (BMPCC youtube forever, jon!) who wouldn't know 3-strip Technicolor if it painted his driveway.  It might be better to return to pointless speculation about an unreleased product, as there won't be agreement on this matter, or even on what constitutes current color grading norms.  

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11 hours ago, Snuff said:

Well since it is using the same Sony sensor as the GH5s I am not surprised it is in the 12.5 range + or -,  but that is pretty darn good for a m4/3 sized sensor compared to the GH4 era of sensors..

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Here's the review:

The shot at 6:57 of him in slow-mo with the light of a single match is just incredible!!

Footage reminds me of the Canon 5DIII ML RAW 14 bit from @kidzrevil in places.  Just lovely.

Are people anticipating the Pocket 2 to have IQ like the T4K?

and to all the people who think you don't need good IQ for home videos - see the lovely shot at 8:12 :)

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Comparing IQ of the Pocket4K and Terra4K you should pay attention to lenses. He used in this review hi quality glass. I'm sure Pocket 4K will be good too with Leica R's :)

Quote

Lots of different lenses since there are so many shoots and locations. My base set is 5 Leica R primes ranging from 28-135mm so those are in a lot of scenes - the little girl with the markers was definitely the 28mm, but I can't remember every shot. One of the Norway days I borrowed my friend's Sigma 18-35mm Art. The Bladerunner looking stuff in the office was on a 24-70mm Canon L, The stuff at night with the cars in the rain was a Pentax 50mm f/1.4 Super Takumar, and the shot of the model with the chart and OLPF flare were on a Zeiss CP2 50mm cine prime.

 

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30 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said:

Anyone speak Korean?

 

He is just explaining the specs of the camera, MFT mount, touch screen, good features for video, good DR, 4k60p, HDMI, battery type, USB-C, DNGRAW and DavinciResolve is convenient, ProRes is also available, still camera button next to the regular one, please visit our homepage. No new information as far as I can tell.

 

 

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