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Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

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25 minutes ago, Cinegain said:

Sounds like a BMPCC4K is a bit too hardcore for what you'll be using it for (it's a cinema camera that thrives in production environments and for people that need thicc footage and are capable and willing to do a lot of post-production on it)... why not just get a GH5 already? Also think you're expectations/critique of the image from the camera is a bit harsh for someone used to a Canon 60D and GoPros that certainly can't keep up at all. Did you even check the Vimeo-footage by say John Brawley posted earlier here?

Well it also helps to land certain type of jobs. As for narrative type jobs I would not hire somebody with a gh5. Offcourse skill is more important, but the gh5 is aimed at a different market. More event type jobs. Which require a different skillset then narrative shooting. As I hate event shooting personally, where I give jobs to friends who nail events but are clueless at narrative work.

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

Who's talking about landing jobs or getting a certain camera to look the part on set? And why couldn't you use a GH5 for narrative work? Anyways, distilled:

Quote

i cant see much difference between dvd and blueray  with out a magnifying glass [..] i turned 51 [..] abit concerned that  if  eyes cant resolve or benefit from a 1080 or 4k picture or 8k then its all a bit of a wank for our ego's [..] wonder if my new laptop will handle 4k probably not, my old desktop definitely won't [..] my background is .... well actually there's not much background apart from a canon 60d a gopro 4 silver and gopro 6 black that i like to play with [..] i'm a rookie/newbie [..] haven't done much research on what else is available [..] considering this bm4k beast is about to be released perhaps it will be worth it and i wont have to research further [..] i'd like to try a make a few videos and i have a few thoughts that i would like to try they might only make a few mates giggle or go viral but i wouldn't get my hopes up [..] adapt the m42 pentax and canon fd lenses i have [..] interesting to note that there's 174 pages of interest but the bm4k hasn't arrived yet

Seems the least of this person's worry is landing jobs shooting video unless they've had a revelation about carreer changes and aren't afraid to put in some time and effort to learn new knowledge and skills (nothing is pointing to this, seems more of a hobby-thing). Think this person hasn't got much clue and figured that if it's getting so much attention and anticipation from us folks, it must be a good one. Well, picking a camera is not a popularity contest. As I always keep on saying over and over again: get the right tool for the job. And the GH5 is more versatile and no0b-friendly... would sure make things easier and the 5-axis IBIS would work a charm adapting those vintage lenses.

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i don't know who faulkner is so i have no idea if that's a compliment or not :) . perhaps i need to be more concise or word it differently, most people on here seem excited by this new camera i'm excited too but more reserved. i presume this camera will be overkill for my needs which is fine. i may need to upgrade my desktop but then i have done that before as well althrough less fine but to be expected. i hope that the lenses i have accumulated will also be adaptable  pretty easily with either pentax screwmounts or canon fd lenses.  i guess at heart i'm a happy snapper who'd like to venture into video, but i have no experience with earlier bm products so who knows perhaps you can enlighten me ? . and yes my thought processes do float around abit comes from falling from the first floor  as a baby i kid you not i'm sure my consciousness either floats around or flows i'm too scared to think about it too deeply about it  if you ask around i'm sure there's be a couple who would say there's at least a vortex or two and maybe a black hole at the center as well. but you learn to live with it after awhile. you been able to glean much from my earlier flow of consciousness but lets talk less about me and more about the bm4k cause you know the others will get jealous. as you seem to identify well with animals having an elephant as an avatar i pose this simile for you that i cant help but think we are like little puppy dogs chasing our tail when it comes to resolution and how much we think we need  ? when will it stop before or after our eyes lose the ability to tell the difference or after our wallets are empty and at what point does resolution become gluttony for the eyes ? i'm kinda happy with 1080 maybe 4k will be spectacular i am undecided at the moment i will probably grab one if it performs spectacularly because i like tech as well  

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47 minutes ago, leslie said:

i don't know who faulkner is so i have no idea if that's a compliment or not :)

Faulkner was great, probably one of the greatest (not just) American writer... his writing style may also be called comparatively extremely "thick" and "unstabilized" (in comparison with, say, Hemingway's) and so I guess he would probably preferred  BMPocket above gang of those Japanese 8bit boring fancy Autofocused (!) dandies :)

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i seem to have generated some debate or some enthusiastic replies anyway, for the record, yes not much research done i came into this forum for the anamorphic side of things because that interests me but that requires video as well interestingly this site has some video forums as well it seems advantageous to me that i glean some knowledge from you experts, you are more expert than me right ?

ok  mr cinegrain  andrew reid makes a few recommendations in the lens forum which i have read most of, plenty of people jump on those recommendations i see no difference from taking your recommendations about a new bm camera from you guys, wouldn't i be crazy not to want a class leading new camera unless of course your saying that your recommendations are less valid,  is that what your saying ? your also right about me not wanting a full time job in cinema photography. my recent career change  was to become a full time carer for my father if you put that under a cinemascope and have a look i think maybe your perspective might change a bit too . try not to be so judgemental about whats happening a world away. i,m australian we are a laid back mob.  i dont think i critiqued the bm4k in anyway i merely said that i hadn't seen any footage yet. but thanks for pointing out the John Brawley reference i will have a look

by the way this comment appears a little oxy moronish   (it's a cinema camera that thrives in production environments and for people that need thicc footage and are capable and willing to do a lot of post-production on it)

really we have this ($1800 camera in my country ) ($1200 in your country perhaps) that does amazing things but requires that you are willing to do a lot of post-production on it)

so i am buying a cheaper cinema camera than the competition  that should be class leading in some regards that is going to take ten hours in post production to make a 1 hour video look spectacular, is your logic off or are black magic are doing something wrong  ?

er... i may have played devils advocate there for a moment, occasionally it happens 

at the end of the day does it  really matter if i use a gh5 or bm4k to shoot vids of a dog jumping through hoops, it is after all my money. i will have the best vids of dogs jumping through hoops at least,😉 by the way if i wasn't interested in learning stuff i would have stayed with the kit lens  :)

 

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Leslie.

You've admitted you've not watched any footage and have no production experience.  You're speaking to an audience here in this thread that has a either a great deal of experience, or lot more experience than you yourself and who have actually bothered to read a little more before posting to an audience of like minded individuals.

Consider researching a little more thoroughly at least before throwing some handgrenades of questions like the ones you dropped in your previous post. 

I don't even know where to begin if I have to explain why it can take much longer to grade a shot than to shoot it. 

Learning is great, and knowledge can be had here.  This is a very helpful community but you have to put in a little effort rather than it being spoon fed to you.

JB

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2 hours ago, leslie said:

[..]

Specific recommendations given are usually based on one's individual needs... or for a general type of crowd (or general positive feedback about certain products must be taken into relation to that person's use and experience). In regard to that I have in fact given you a personalized recommendation that goes against the BMPCC4K as I honestly think the GH5 would better suits your needs. Of course, needs differ from wants... and ultimately you're unobstructed going about things you see them fit surely. But... if I want a nice car to bring my kids to school with, I'm wrong to think that Ducati motorcycle people are raving about on forums is something I should be getting... if you know what I'm trying to say here.

Of course we have a bias here towards the production side of things... more so than funny ideas that might go viral on YouTube along with cat and dog videos. A cinema camera is ideally used in a production environment where it's just a small part of a much bigger equation. Where perhaps even more attention goes towards lighting, audio and all things that go on behind and in front of the camera, rather than just the camera itself. With much time and energy put into pre- and post-production. And for the latter you want a very good base quality. Because with thick gradable footage, you can create mood and looks that enhance your storytelling. But that takes time. As you point out 'ten hours in post production to make a 1 hour video look spectacular'... that is exactly what cinema cameras are about (not restricted to the BMPCC4K... any RED, ARRI etc as well). No, that doesn't mean they're doing anything wrong. Wrong would be looking at this camera and take it for something it is not. I am just trying to make you aware of this. A cinema camera is no point-n-shoot mind you (neither is a GH5 meant to by the way). That it's affordable yet professional doesn't mean you necessarily should get one unless you can argue WHY you need it. And I haven't seen any arguments coming from you why YOU should get one other than picking that one seems like a popular pick and it would mean you wouldn't have to do any further research... I'm also not saying you shouldn't get it. Filmmaking has become more accessible than ever and a one-man-band approach with such a camera is absolutely doable. But it's just not aligning very well with the whole story you had put up.

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2 hours ago, leslie said:

😉 by the way if i wasn't interested in learning stuff i would have stayed with the kit lens  :)

 

On paper the kit lens is probably better than the m42 pentax and canon fd lenses. At least it should have OIS. The PK4 had no IBIS. Put the kit lens on a smart EF to m4/3 adapter and you are in business, it will even do push AF. And a lot of those old lenses really are not that good in today's shooting. Plus they need to be de clicked to work great. They are cheap to buy, but some work out and a lot don't. And Very few of them are wide enough, or fast enough for a camera that has a 1.9 to 2.0 crop. Better off to buy some of the cheap Cine lenses that are out. You really don't need very many lens for most video work. Quality over Quantity is the only way to go. And there is a ton of pretty good m4/3 lenses out that are cheap.

But sure any lens works. You just have to go out and shoot, shoot, shoot. But that is the Easy part, then you have to edit and grade it LoL!

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@John Brawley I noticed you are a fan of the SLR magic APO's. Do you think this would be a great fit for the BMPCC4K? If so, would you just use the MFT adapter or would you get an MFT speedbooster?

Ideally i would prefer a speedbooster but I've wondered whether the extra glass from the speedbooster would degrade the image quality of the lens and defeat the purpose of investing in a cinema grade lens like this. 

 

Your thoughts?

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20 hours ago, leslie said:

 

so i am buying a cheaper cinema camera than the competition  that should be class leading in some regards that is going to take ten hours in post production to make a 1 hour video look spectacular, is your logic off or are black magic are doing something wrong  ?

Btw 10 hours to make a 'spectacular' 1 hour video is extremely conservative. I'd say at least 100 hours depending on what level of sophistication you're going for!

If you're new to production or video editing, some advice is to plan for lots of post-production time, unless you're shooting one long take!

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Here in the UK I'm being told by ProAV that they are expecting the first batch around the end of September.

I have to say the more I watch JB's footage, the more I'm looking forward to getting my hands on this little beauty...

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So a month or so to decide about storage media. CFast or the T5 SSD? Will be looking to record short (usually a few seconds - very few up to 5 minutes) clips in raw.

CVP have the Sandisk extreme pro 128 for just over £300. Plus 40 or so for the Sandisk card reader. Not cheap...

Or is the T5 a better option? 

Still, it is good to be close enough to have to start thinking about practical stuff.

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Don't know if everyone has seen this, but BM is allowing us to download the files for ALL of the sample videos posted. Before I found this I had only seen the download feature enabled for one of John's videos. But they can all be downloaded here. - https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicpocketcinemacamera/gallery

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34 minutes ago, Snowfun said:

So a month or so to decide about storage media. CFast or the T5 SSD? Will be looking to record short (usually a few seconds - very few up to 5 minutes) clips in raw.

CVP have the Sandisk extreme pro 128 for just over £300. Plus 40 or so for the Sandisk card reader. Not cheap...

Or is the T5 a better option? 

Still, it is good to be close enough to have to start thinking about practical stuff.

Unless there is something I am missing I don't see why would you want to use a CFast card when you can use an SSD.

A 1TB T5 SSD is just under £300 so gives 8x the storage for the same price.

Not sure why BM put the card slots in. It would have been just as easy to make the body a little bulkier & have a slot for an SSD.

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11 minutes ago, nigelbb said:

Unless there is something I am missing I don't see why would you want to use a CFast card when you can use an SSD.

A 1TB T5 SSD is just under £300 so gives 8x the storage for the same price.

Not sure why BM put the card slots in. It would have been just as easy to make the body a little bulkier & have a slot for an SSD.

Yeah but unless we have a cage and zip tie the SSD to it I don't see how I could hold the drive and cable without that? I guess on paper we are going to have to have Both solutions to be honest.

"It would have been just as easy to make the body a little bulkier & have a slot for an SSD" That would have been a nice idea. They had to have thought about it, but maybe too bulky?

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14 minutes ago, Jonesy Jones said:

Don't know if everyone has seen this, but BM is allowing us to download the files for ALL of the sample videos posted. Before I found this I had only seen the download feature enabled for one of John's videos. But they can all be downloaded here. - https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicpocketcinemacamera/gallery

That's amazing, thanks for providing the link!

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49 minutes ago, Jonesy Jones said:

Don't know if everyone has seen this, but BM is allowing us to download the files for ALL of the sample videos posted. Before I found this I had only seen the download feature enabled for one of John's videos. But they can all be downloaded here. - https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicpocketcinemacamera/gallery

Let's see what you colourists are made of.

JB

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