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Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

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1 minute ago, Cinegain said:

I wish for it to print money. In the end though... it's a cinema camera. One of the reasons the GH5S supposedly has no IBIS is due to professional requirements (which only partly is a bull$hit argument).

Rumor has it, Panasonic is going to release a G90 that has the same sensor as the GH5s, but will also have IBIS. LOL.

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2 minutes ago, mechanicalEYE said:

Rumor has it, Panasonic is going to release a G90 that has the same sensor as the GH5s, but will also have IBIS. LOL.

People that want a budget hybrid expect a higher MP sensor than that. One of the supposed issues with the GH5S also was that there wasn't any physical space to make it work inside basically the same shell as the GH5. I doubt a G80/85 somehow would be able. From a perspective of those 'professional requirements' it might not be that much of a worry. Just the GH4 was used a lot on shows like Top Gear/The Grand Tour and the GH5 proved to have some difficulties counteracting vibrations such of a car, also, the sensor would move around the image circle and when using a lens that vignets slighty for instance, you'd see the vignet wander around. They might've fixed that or that might not be a worry for a consumer oriented camerabody... but I think the scenario of GH5S with IBIS is a bit unlikely. But we'll see.

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4 minutes ago, Cinegain said:

People that want a budget hybrid expect a higher MP sensor than that. One of the supposed issues with the GH5S also was that there wasn't any physical space to make it work inside basically the same shell as the GH5. I doubt a G80/85 somehow would be able. From a perspective of those 'professional requirements' it might not be that much of a worry. Just the GH4 was used a lot on shows like Top Gear/The Grand Tour and the GH5 proved to have some difficulties counteracting vibrations such of a car, also, the sensor would move around the image circle and when using a lens that vignets slighty for instance, you'd see the vignet wander around. They might've fixed that or that might not be a worry for a consumer oriented camerabody... but I think the scenario of GH5S with IBIS is a bit unlikely. But we'll see.

https://www.43rumors.com/ft3-unconfirmed-rumor-about-a-new-panasonic-g90-with-same-gh5s-sensor/

 

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I'm thinking this is a case of us debating about something that we actually agree on.

One group is saying this new camera is missing the BMCC/BMPCC mojo.

The other group is saying that they agree but this is ok because they believe that look will still be obtainable if desired, just not straight ooc (keep in mind we still have yet to see footage straight ooc).

For the group that wants the og mojo/magic/whatever, 2 things. First, I really believe you'll be able to get something closer to that if you want it. Use vintage lenses, possibly a desharpening filter, and grade the way you want it. Second, why not just buy a BMPCC or BMMCC? Many of these folks say they don't even care about 4K. Why would need a new version of the old camera? One can be had for very inexpensive on the used market, the other can be rigged anyway you like it. Point being, you already have your camera.

I believe BM's goal with this camera is for it to be closer to the UMP than the original Pocket, and for good reason. URSA Micro would have probably been a better name. 

This new camera gives you more options than the original pocket. 4K. Higher FPS. Similar/same DR. Better/truer color science. New OS. Better audio options. Better battery. Better lowlight. LUT support, even baked in LUTS. Multiple recording options. 

Obviously the image itself is priority #1, and until these things are out in the wild we will not be able to make any definitive decisions about this. But I am part of group 2 at this point. I am very encouraged by the footage and believe this camera will be able to take me anywhere I need to go.

On another note, @CaptainHook or @John Brawley I have a couple questions regarding functionality of this camera.

  1. Is this camera able to transfer files in camera? Say I shoot on a card but don't have a reader with me, but I do have a USB C device. Is it possible to transfer footage to the USB C device in camera?
  2. How does the stills function work, just by pressing the shutter button? Does it just record these as DNG's? Can the stills function work while recording video?
  3. How about fan noise? How noticeable has it been?
  4. How about ISO/ASA noise? I've noticed it a bit, even what almost looked like FPN in one of John's pieces. It hasn't bothered me because I really have to look for it. But I'm just wondering if you could talk about that more. Maybe compare it to one of the other BM cameras. 
  5. If I buy this camera, will all of my wildest dreams come true?
  6. If I plaster BM stickers and posters all over town and prove to you that I am a worthy filmmaker, will you let me test one of your future new cameras?

Thanks guys.

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1 hour ago, Bioskop.Inc said:

 

I laughed when Frank (over at BMUser) slapped on the Tokina ATX Pro to his BM4.6K last year & it shone - then everyone went scrambling for one. This is a lens we've known about here for ages (thanks to Andy Lee) & how could you go wrong with such a lens - it's an Angenieux recipe lens that screams that cinema feel/image. 

Which model of Tokina ATX pro are people liking for video? ... I'm a little behind on that one

 

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8 minutes ago, Jonesy Jones said:
  • Is this camera able to transfer files in camera? Say I shoot on a card but don't have a reader with me, but I do have a USB C device. Is it possible to transfer footage to the USB C device in camera?
  • How does the stills function work, just by pressing the shutter button? Does it just record these as DNG's? Can the stills function work while recording video?
  • How about fan noise? How noticeable has it been?
  • How about ISO/ASA noise? I've noticed it a bit, even what almost looked like FPN in one of John's pieces. It hasn't bothered me because I really have to look for it. But I'm just wondering if you could talk about that more. Maybe compare it to one of the other BM cameras. 
  • If I buy this camera, will all of my wildest dreams come true?
  • If I plaster BM stickers and posters all over town and prove to you that I am a worthy filmmaker, will you let me test one of your future new cameras?

While I have no first hand knowledge, I can answer a couple of those.

1. No you can't transfer files in camera.

2. Stills function saves a DNG - I think in whatever frame size you're set to record in. Not sure about being able to use it while recording, but assume you can.

3. Can't answer

4. Can't answer

5. Your wildest dreams will definitely come true dreams may not actually come true.

6. I remember seeing something about being able to email BMD through their website to apply to be a future tester. I imagine there's a few things you need to prove before you're even considered, and they're inundated with applications.

8 minutes ago, Robin said:

Which model of Tokina ATX pro are people liking for video? ... I'm a little behind on that one

I think it's the 28-70 f2.8.

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It would be nice to save stills not only as DNG but as PNG with baked LUT and chosen aspect ratio.

13 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said:

Which model of Tokina ATX pro are people liking for video?

Tokina 28-70 f/2.6-2.8, Tokina 28-70 f/2.8 with screw in hood (1st ver., on the attached picture) and with bayonet hood (2nd ver.), all with 77mm filter thread. Avoid 72mm version (Tokina Pro SV).

Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera_1_2017-06-05_0142_C0009_[000000-000712].00_16_27_21.Still670.jpg

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15 minutes ago, Snuff said:

It would be nice to save stills not only as DNG but as PNG with baked LUT and chosen aspect ratio.

Tokina 28-70 f/2.6-2.8, Tokina 28-70 f/2.8 with screw in hood (1st ver., on the attached picture) and with bayonet hood (2nd ver.), all with 77mm filter thread. Avoid 72mm version (Tokina Pro SV).

Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera_1_2017-06-05_0142_C0009_[000000-000712].00_16_27_21.Still670.jpg

IMO this is a good, but not great lens - and only in certain situations. I've had two copies of the bayonet version that I used on the 5d3 and a7s, and both were pretty soft wide open and had lots of CA - to the point it made shots unusable for me since I'm always shooting in bright sun. The Nikon 28-70/2.8 is a better lens IMO. Lots of people say great things about the Ang/Tok, and they can be found cheap - I don't think it'll be all that great on a 4k camera and its a brick if you're only shooting at f/5.6 to get a sharp shot.

Just my opinion.

Chris

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I compared my Tokina 28-70mm f/2.8 with Nikon Ai-s 28mm f/2 at 28mm and Tokina was sharper at all stops.

On the picture below (Angenieux 70-210) you can see CA (watch at legs), the same CA have Tokina 28-70. But i prefer to call this look as part of the Angie's character. 

Vue-41763180665.jpg

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2 hours ago, Ki Rin said:

Not really sure why I'm getting downvoted for this.. .I understand that for some people its an unimportant feature in a camera like this. 
I'm just saying for me personally, its the only thing stopping it being a pretty perfect camera for me. Still not a deal breaker by any means, but it would be great to have it, in my opinion. 
What's wrong with that?

 

Because you said “if only”

IBIS makes it very hard to cool the sensor and it’s much harder to clock out the sensor at faster rates if it’s not cooled. 

JB

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11 minutes ago, Snuff said:

I compared my Tokina 28-70mm f/2.8 with Nikon Ai-s 28mm f/2 at 28mm and Tokina was sharper at all stops.

On the picture below (Angenieux 70-210) you can see CA (watch at legs), the same CA have Tokina 28-70. But i prefer to call this look as part of the Angie's character. 

 

The only Ai-s lens I've used was the 50/1.2 with the rubber ring, so I can't comment of the performance of anything else. The 28-70 I had was the AF-s with the common dead AF motor - which means they're really cheap for such a great optic. The Nik is definitely a more modern optic that's better corrected with modern coatings - its well regarded as a very sharp zoom. My copies of Tok were soft until about f/4, especially on the wide end. I wish the focus throw was a little longer too. But the CA drove me nuts, so I ultimately moved on. The shot you posted looks good, the issues I had don't show as much. As always YMMV.

Cheers

Chris

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10 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

Well why don't you just fill us in on some juicy new footage or info on the PK4. Hell I got all kind of time to watch. Hmm, not much to see Yet, so, so, hmm I thought so. Or we could just sit here for a week until the next Video shows up and be stuck at ONLY 172 pages busting with total BM news.

Take a pill, dude.

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The Tokina 28-70 2.6 is a wicked lens. I haven't had many issues with CA but it is noticeably softer than the Zeiss and Sigma lenses I'm used to but the image that it produces is, to my eye, much prettier. Cant wait to test it on the new pocket. Also I picked it up for like £120.

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3 hours ago, Ki Rin said:

Not really sure why I'm getting downvoted for this.. .I understand that for some people its an unimportant feature in a camera like this. 
I'm just saying for me personally, its the only thing stopping it being a pretty perfect camera for me. Still not a deal breaker by any means, but it would be great to have it, in my opinion. 
What's wrong with that?

 

Nice wish, surely nothing wrong with it, and even more surely not deserving downvoting more than some other - also very often including mine.

But - it is just completely unrealistic wish, and so you maybe annoyingly occupy place in this precious thread reserved just for serious and strictly product-oriented informations.

Simply, there's no IBIS. It has to be, I guess, pretty great and pricey know-how-experienced patent, especially regarding RAW shooting ambition of camera.

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1 hour ago, Trek of Joy said:

My copies of Tok were soft until about f/4, especially on the wide end. I wish the focus throw was a little longer too. But the CA drove me nuts, so I ultimately moved on. The shot you posted looks good, the issues I had don't show as much.

You make it sound as if you have to stop down the camera loads to get a sharp picture, but to f4 it's only one stop! And you've got to remember it's an oldish lens without all the modern coatings. I've never worried about CA, to me it's like complaining about Moire & Aliasing, just a waste of time - people are too often obsessed with absolute perfection instead of just getting the shot. But it certainly has that Angenieux look, which isn't for everyone. Don't ever try the original as it'll leave you sobbing mess.

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