Robert Collins Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Here's some sales data (from BCN) showing top 20 camera sales in Japan last July. Canon has 4 mirrorless in the top 20 (mirrorless + DSLR) while say Sony has 2. And it is very easy to see why. Canon sells an M10 with 2 lenses for as little as 50,000 yen while Sony's entry level offering - a6000 (a 4 year old camera) + 2 lenses is 50% more expensive at 75,000 yen. Hardly surprising then that Canon had a higher market share than Sony in mirrorless in 2017 in Japan. Canon simply offers a much better value offering (and value beats out bells and whistles every time.) And its not just Sony - all the traditional mirrorless companies Fuji, Panasonic and Olympus - have been moving relentlessly upmarket over the past couple of years and that leaves the door open for Canon and Nikon. I am something of a Sony fanboy but I find them hard to recommend to people because their kit (especially their lenses) are ridiculously expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted February 3, 2018 Author Administrators Share Posted February 3, 2018 Japan is a weird market though. Weirder than the fish in David Attenborough's water programme. The GF7 is 4th by volume. Says a lot. In the rest of the world, I don't see quite as much love for Canon's tiny, bitsy, toy mirrorless cams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kisaha Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 The most cameras I see on holidays, abroad, museums, archaeological sites are smartphone's cameras (of course), or cheap entry level dSLRs, by a huge margin. The mirrorless world is catching up, and slowly replacing older dSLRs in the field, but I am not sure how many people are preferring stand alone cameras to their smartphones (which became better and better, alas sufficient for the masses). People the last few years have been asking me what phone would buy to take pictures - not what camera! Eventually, mirrorless will replace all dSLRs, but they won't be a lot of buyers around, that is why most of the manufacturers are going up, in prices and features. Canon should create a 1" camera module, and do some "powered by Canon" thingy with a big phone manufacturer. Point and shoot are as dead as a Dodo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inazuma Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 I would buy Canons all day if they would just put out good 1080p. Oh also a 22mm EF-S and/or 35mm EF-M would help too. They just seem to be solid cameras with usability in mind. As well as having natural colour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 21 hours ago, Trek of Joy said: Looking at the Amazon sales rankings, its low end DLSR's are still king. The Rebel T6 - not sure what its called in the rest of the world - is #1. https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Electronics-Digital-Cameras/zgbs/electronics/281052 Only non-Canikon in the top 10 is: a Sony P&S (at #2) + a Kodak P&S + a knock off accessories kit for GoPro (ha, not even a camera! Seriously, it doesn't include the GoPro itself) a6000 and a7Rmk3 are the only mirrorless in the top 20. Wonder if this is ranked by volume of sales or value of sales? Guessing by volume. https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Electronics-Mirrorless-Cameras/zgbs/electronics/3109924011/ Hmmm... a5100 is #4! :-o (& a6000 is #1) Impressive for such old cameras. Darn pity they never updated the a5100! (I just wanted a mic input on mine.... ) 9 hours ago, Robert Collins said: Canon has 4 mirrorless in the top 20 (mirrorless + DSLR) while say Sony has 2. And it is very easy to see why. Canon sells an M10 with 2 lenses for as little as 50,000 yen while Sony's entry level offering - a6000 (a 4 year old camera) + 2 lenses is 50% more expensive at 75,000 yen. Hardly surprising then that Canon had a higher market share than Sony in mirrorless in 2017 in Japan. Canon simply offers a much better value offering (and value beats out bells and whistles every time.) And its not just Sony - all the traditional mirrorless companies Fuji, Panasonic and Olympus - have been moving relentlessly upmarket over the past couple of years and that leaves the door open for Canon and Nikon. I am something of a Sony fanboy but I find them hard to recommend to people because their kit (especially their lenses) are ridiculously expensive. A better comparison for the Canon M10 would instead be the cheaper Sony a5100 (which like the a6000 is also a 4 year old camera :-/ ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byuri734 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 a6000 was a camera ahead of its time: very cheap, extremely compact for an aps-c camera with a viewfinder, 24mp, great autofocus, very good 1080p, unusual (for Sony) updated video codec in their mid-life. I think Sony screwed up with their development in their aps-c line with 4k and IS through the a6300 and 6500. The cameras got bigger, more expensive and with more bugs/bad publicity (overheating, ridiculous rolling shutter, etc.). They should have left IS and 4k for the A7 line: A7rII and specially A7rIII proved the perfect platform for them. The sucessor of a6000 should have focused on having 28mp (like the NX1), better autofocus and even better 1080p, a flip screen, and more (compact) lens options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 34 minutes ago, byuri734 said: should have focused on having 28mp (like the NX1) An extra 4MP means little, they could have just stuck with the sensor and seen how they could have otherwise improved the camera. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members Mattias Burling Posted February 3, 2018 Super Members Share Posted February 3, 2018 I often look at the a6000 these days. I had it when it was new and very disappointed in the video it produced. But these days its way cheaper new and used it costs less than a pair of sneakers. And given how much stills I shoot it would probably make more sense now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kisaha Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 @byuri734 That camera exists and it is called NX500. Records continuous video for 78 minutes. No overheating, 4K(crop similar to Nikon D500). 28mgpxls BSI sensor. With a vastly superior kit power zoom lens than Sony's and one of the best SOLED touch screen implementations ever (still best menu system in the industry), and amazing ergonomics (for such a small camera, do not put any speed boosted 70-200 on it!) 2 wheels - on thumb and index - for basic operations (Sony hasn't figure this out on their newer APS-C cameras yet). Bonus: best connectivity features back in 2015, now others catching up (and exceed), but still relevant (Bluetooth, WiFi, NFC etc). Only thing that lacks, a mic in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcio Kabke Pinheiro Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 16 hours ago, Andrew Reid said: Japan is a weird market though. Weirder than the fish in David Attenborough's water programme. The GF7 is 4th by volume. Says a lot. In the rest of the world, I don't see quite as much love for Canon's tiny, bitsy, toy mirrorless cams. In my last trip to Europe, was shocked to see A LOT of EOS M5 in hands of tourists. Especially in London. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kisaha Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 http://www.cipa.jp/stats/dc_e.html dSLR 10% down, mirrorless 40% up, a tiny little better than last year (I could guess a EOS M model every 3 months, and GH5 did their magic for 2017). a lot of cool statistics! In the graph one can easily see the huge decline even between 2015 and 2016/2017. Do not try to find data from a decade ago, will be depressing! EDIT: well, I did it for you, 122.000.000 cameras sold in 2010 109.000.000 build-in lens and 13.000.000 dSLRs 2017 13.000.000 build-in lens and 12.000.000 ILCs. Not that bad actually, the compact market just crashed, but if you compare the numbers, the years around 2010 were abnormal, as 122.000.000 cameras are too much in any sense. We all know people with an entry level dSLR that got bored after a couple of months. That was around 2010! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byuri734 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 3 hours ago, Kisaha said: @byuri734 That camera exists and it is called NX500. Records continuous video for 78 minutes. No overheating, 4K(crop similar to Nikon D500). 28mgpxls BSI sensor. With a vastly superior kit power zoom lens than Sony's and one of the best SOLED touch screen implementations ever (still best menu system in the industry), and amazing ergonomics (for such a small camera, do not put any speed boosted 70-200 on it!) 2 wheels - on thumb and index - for basic operations (Sony hasn't figure this out on their newer APS-C cameras yet). Bonus: best connectivity features back in 2015, now others catching up (and exceed), but still relevant (Bluetooth, WiFi, NFC etc). Only thing that lacks, a mic in! NX500 has no EVF. It is a great camera though, but not in the same segment of a6000, more like in the segment of the a5100. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kisaha Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 @byuri734 NX500 is a lot better than the a6000 both in specs, and real life use, it's not even close. It doesn't have EVF, I haven't used an EVF since forever (and NX1's is amazing), and the Super AMOLED screen never dims, in no circumstances whatsoever. If your shooting style commands a camera stuck to your eye, and your nose is a few millimeters long, then I am sure you do enjoy the a6000's EVF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted February 3, 2018 Author Administrators Share Posted February 3, 2018 Yeah and with Luca's NX-L adapter the NX500 is even better... Super 35mm 4K in your pocket for cheap, with EF mount. Colour is much better than A6000 too! Kisaha 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members Mattias Burling Posted February 3, 2018 Super Members Share Posted February 3, 2018 47 minutes ago, Kisaha said: @byuri734 NX500 is a lot better than the a6000 both in specs, and real life use, it's not even close. It doesn't have EVF, I haven't used an EVF since forever (and NX1's is amazing), and the Super AMOLED screen never dims, in no circumstances whatsoever. If your shooting style commands a camera stuck to your eye, and your nose is a few millimeters long, then I am sure you do enjoy the a6000's EVF. Ive had both and must say that for me the a6000 is the better fit. Specs don't mean anything, I'm just going by user experience and final images. But the nx500 is a very capable camera. Dirt cheap as well, for obvious reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byuri734 Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 56 minutes ago, Kisaha said: @byuri734 NX500 is a lot better than the a6000 both in specs, and real life use, it's not even close. It doesn't have EVF, I haven't used an EVF since forever (and NX1's is amazing), and the Super AMOLED screen never dims, in no circumstances whatsoever. If your shooting style commands a camera stuck to your eye, and your nose is a few millimeters long, then I am sure you do enjoy the a6000's EVF. I never said that a6000 was better than NX500: I was discussing why Sony "screwed up" with the a6000 line, great potential that was lost in my option. NX line was great? Sure, and it got extinct while the a6000 is still a great seller today. I am saying why a6000 sold well: cheap, EVF, aps sensor, very small, good 1080p, 24mp, good autofocus. Which camera did that in 2014? NX500 didn't even exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damphousse Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 On 2/2/2018 at 5:01 AM, leeys said: Here's a new example: In a completely unrelated site, someone was saying that the best camera for vlogging is a Canon 6D because some YouTuber recommended it. Turns out Canon has been sending 6Ds to high-profile YouTube vloggers to push the camera for that purpose. Yeah. It amazes me how many vloggers use cameras I wouldn't touch. You always wonder how they arrived at that choice. Can't argue with Canon's marketing campaign. Sadly stuff like that works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 5 hours ago, Damphousse said: You always wonder how they arrived at that choice. You answer your own question in your next sentence: 5 hours ago, Damphousse said: Can't argue with Canon's marketing campaign. Sadly stuff like that works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 I’d say 90-95% of YT videos are watched on smart phones... So it comes down to AF and color science... it’s as simple as that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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