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Kisaha

Interesting article (NX lenses mentioning)

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It is an interesting article about mirrorless cameras, and a confirmation of my view that one of the major strengths of the NX system were the -not so many, but most quite good- lenses.

"Sony — NEX is history. But so, it appears, is the A5xxx. Really? The crop sensor Sony line is now a series of three cameras each of which is a "stick more sensor tech in it" version of the former? I fail to see how this is a useful strategy. Things that were wrong with the A6000 are still wrong with the A6500 (and A6300 in between). And when all is said and done these cameras seem a lot more GameBoy than anything else on the market. Don't get me wrong, I like them, but...
Note to Sony executives: You're making the same mistake Nikon made with DX, and  Canon made with EF-S and is making with EF-M. Samsung made lenses for their NEX-clone that clearly bettered what you put out. You can put all the tech you want at the sensor, but it's the optics out front that are hurting your image quality, not the sensor. What I'd give for Samsung's 16mm f/2.4, 20mm f/2.8, 30mm f/2, 45mm f/1.8, 60mm f/2.8, and 85mm f/1.4 in a Sony E-mount.  And no, your Sony 16mm, 20mm, 30mm don't even come close."

http://www.sansmirror.com/newsviews/the-latest-state-of-mirrorl.html

unfortunately, even someone mentioning the NX system is news for us! It would be interesting if anyone could make a similar evaluation for the NX system in the end of 2017, almost 2018. I see the system being used from some of us until 2020 at least.

 

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

Unfortunately no one seems to love APS-C :-( 

Aside from Fujifilm (and even they just brought out a medium format camera as well), and Pentax (who not only have medium format, but now are doing FF too). 

If it wasn't for Tokina (11-20mm f2.8), Sigma (18-35mm f1.8 & 50-100mm f1.8), and Tamron (18-400mm f/3.5-6.3) then Nikon DX / Canon APS-C would look very weak and pathetic indeed. 

One of the last big gaps remaining is a superzoom with a constant F4, such as the 18-105mm f/4 but for Nikon F / Canon EF mount instead. 
(and kinda wish there were DX lenses for 85mm / 150mm / etc.... if it meant they could be smaller/cheaper? Like the Nikon 35mm f1.8G which is a sweet bargain! More pancake lenses too! Which Pentax does for APS-C already)

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Everybody loves APS-C, but companies are pushing bigger formats because they can freely put whatever price they want to bodies and lenses, but most sales (in numbers) is APS-C and under. Now with the high m43 prices, APS-C seems like a better bargain, even. For some of us, APS-C is the sweet spot, and we stay NX, because it represents what a APS-C system should be, with an "if.." in the end though.

If the trend continues, I see Fuji as the most likelihood candidate to be my next system, already I have some friends photographers going that way (especially from Nikon), they just ain't as good as NX for video yet, but for photography, they are already there.

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Near "super 35" sensors will always be coveted by filmmakers as a matter of a long withstanding convention. It can and will change, but for now I don't personally know many ppl complaining about the super 35 -ish format in real world applications.

Full frame is more desired in photography, but there's a growing movement to go medium format as those systems come down in price. 

It's all relative to how wide you want to go and obtain a shallow depth of feild and light gathering abilities. Usually, if you're shooting wide, it's because you want to show the breadth and detail of the entire frame. Therefore, I feel the sweet spot is super 35, but I'm not married to my own opinions either. 

The lowest I'm currently willing to go as far as production is APS-C with back illumination. Samsung spoiled me in this regard.

I'm not touching mirco four thirds with your 10 foot pole. A simple physics issue for me. 

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21 hours ago, Matthew Hartman said:

Full frame is more desired in photography, but there's a growing movement to go medium format as those systems come down in price. 

 


I purchased cheap medium format lenses secondhand on the anticipation of this happening in the future! ;-)

As once medium format digital is cheap, then secondhand prices are going through the rough! (like what happened when APS-C / MFT mirrorless became popular, or heck even once the RED ONE became famous that pushed up prices of old PL lenses! To go even further back in history)

21 hours ago, Matthew Hartman said:

I'm not touching mirco four thirds with your 10 foot pole. A simple physics issue for me. 

So long as you have lenses to match the sensor size, then it is never going to be a big deal at all :-)

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I didn't want to start another thread for just to post a link, so I add this here.

http://bokehmarket.com/blog/samsung-nx1-best-budget-4k-hybrid-camera-2018-video-stills

Some mistakes there, of course the 16-50 is 2-2.8f, and not 2.8f, and the 45mm is 1.8f not 2f.

Also, the NX certainly has no IBIS, but with some lenses, the Dual IS is quite spectacular (had that covered since 2015 too).

 

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6 hours ago, Kisaha said:

I didn't want to start another thread for just to post a link, so I add this here.

http://bokehmarket.com/blog/samsung-nx1-best-budget-4k-hybrid-camera-2018-video-stills

Some mistakes there, of course the 16-50 is 2-2.8f, and not 2.8f, and the 45mm is 1.8f not 2f.

Also, the NX certainly has no IBIS, but with some lenses, the Dual IS is quite spectacular (had that covered since 2015 too).

 

As a NX1 fanboy its nice to see the camera still getting some love in 2018.

It's unfortunate however, that it's from a more independent and obscure source.

I truly believe Samsung's failure in the pro market was not just due to their own devices, I beleive it's competitors had an invested interest in squashing it. DOA.

One of the worse examples I saw was Cinema5D's inexplicable review of the camera. You cannot tell me that wasn't intentional, that channel sells cameras by how they guide the consumer. They have pushed much lessor cameras and never did a follow up with the new firmware, which every other mainstream camera gets the luxury of. That was a lynching, and I dont think they imagined the backlash they would receive. The reviewers (very visible within the industry) even got insulting towards commentors, it was a sight to behold. 

Matt Granger and Phillip Bloom gave it a passing and half-hearted look/remark, all whilst praising lessor systems. A lot of ppl respect and trust their opinions so it did have somekind of impact. 

But by far the worse enemy of the NX1/500 was Samsung itself. I partnered with them when I was at Microsoft and we were working on biometric login (I'm one of the main designers on Windows Hello) and they're a good company who pours a lot of money in R&D, way more than most but they are super reactive to the market and they have it in for Apple in the sense of trying to be the go to product tech company. I think it's important to note it was Windows that had the first version of face ID using infered 3D cameras, not Apple, and we learned a lot from the R&D Samsung was doing. This was 3 years before the iPhoneX. I give credit where credit is due. 

Samsung is most likely right about their assesment of why they pulled out, they employ some very smart ppl globally, but I think their timing was a bit premature. The shift in management and internal scandals had something to do with it. However, re-orgs are quite common in tech. Microsoft has about 3-4 per year. 

I have no doubt had Samsung stuck it out their evolution of the NX1/500 would be more in the territory of Blackmagic, and other cinema cameras above the $5,000 bracket; easily.

I gaurantee we would have had 120fps 4k DCI and possibly better ISO performance than even Sony in 2017. Samsung does not fuck around, all the big tech companies knows this. You don't beat Samsung, you join them or lose 90% of your production capacity.

Everyone thinks Apple is the one, but Samsung is the real tech giant when you look at tech on a global scale. This is because of smart business decisions to own the hardware, software, services, components and production. Every device has a little Samsung logo inside of it. Just like most image sensors say Sony. Why anyone would doubt or denie Samsung is beyond me. 

Panasonic and Sony's offerings in the mirrorless division wouldn't have stood a chance and influential reviewers would not be able to dismiss it or their bias and contractual restrictions would be too evident. 

But, here we are. Left with great but depreciating systems. Left to muse about what could have been like disgruntled old men and women. 

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50 minutes ago, Matthew Hartman said:

One of the worse examples I saw was Cinema5D's inexplicable review of the camera

I stopped visiting that site, after that incompetent review.

52 minutes ago, Matthew Hartman said:

gaurantee we would have had 120fps 4k DCI and possibly better ISO performance than even Sony in 2017.

For sure. Galaxy s9 will do [email protected] and [email protected] The hw is there and Samsung has it in consumer products.

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33 minutes ago, Marco Tecno said:

I stopped visiting that site, after that incompetent review.

For sure. Galaxy s9 will do [email protected] and [email protected] The hw is there and Samsung has it in consumer products.

Actually, the Galaxy S9 is going to do 120fps @4k on their Exynos processor. The Snapdragon Qualcomm proccesors are SOL, so North American's such as myself are no bueno. 

They're also going to have a variabe apeture of f 1.5 - 2.2. Pretty cool. 

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23 hours ago, Kisaha said:

 Excellent article, except I feel it made two big omissions: Nikon D7500 & Panasonic G80/85

I'd happily buy or recommend either of them over a $1K NX1 (of course... if I spotted a NX1 even cheaper than that, I'd quickly change my tune!).

As I understand why they rated the NX1 over the likes of the GH5S or a7Smk2, as on a per dollar basis they just simply are not as good value as a secondhand NX1!

But the G80 & D7500 are very similar in price (in fact the Panasonic is notably cheaper), and are each very good film/photography cameras for their price. 

Plus of course they're both lens mount systems which are still actively developed, and I'm totally confident that they'll still be "current systems" (vs the dead system of NX mount) in 5 years time (heck, you probably wouldn't want to casually bet against them still be around in 10 years either!). 

 

17 hours ago, Matthew Hartman said:

One of the worse examples I saw was Cinema5D's inexplicable review of the camera.


That was a turning point which lead to Cinema5D dropping off my radar as one of my "regular always reads" (while Newsshooter, Redshark News, of course EOSHD, and a few others still remain). 

 

17 hours ago, Matthew Hartman said:

However, re-orgs are quite common in tech. Microsoft has about 3-4 per year. 


That many per year seems a bit nuts to me. Must lead to a lot of wasted effort with endless churn.

 

 

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On 1/21/2018 at 9:20 AM, IronFilm said:

That many per year seems a bit nuts to me. Must lead to a lot of wasted effort with endless churn.

Completely. It's part of why I left and went with a smaller agency.

It's really unfortunate. You have employees who genuinely want to innovate and please their users and then you have business objectives which of course is to maximize profits. There's probably a happy medium but of course it always skews left.

I could'nt tell you how many projects I've worked hard on only to be redirected in a matter of days by top management. It is really daunting and causes you to question your own career choice.

The worst re-org I saw in my time was MS' aquisition of Nokia. They brought a lot of Nokia's employees over to the Redmond campus here in the U.S., including their families, only to let most of them go about 2 months later. I thought this an extremely immoral dick move on MS' part. 

Don't believe this is a MS problem. I've seen it everywhere. Apple, Samsung, HTC, Google, Amazon, they're all the same. It's a very reactive industry.

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10 hours ago, Matthew Hartman said:

The worst re-org I saw in my time was MS' aquisition of Nokia.


Back in the day I was a big time cellphone geek, especially keen on the best built in cameras I could get in a smartphone. Thus a big fan of Nokia. As their Nokia N82 was amazing! (for its time) And Symbian OS was pretty good too for an early smartphone. Had a Sony Ericsson K810i too before that, and a Sony Ericsson K800i before that! The Xeon flash is what really set them apart for the time if you wanted to take any snaps in lowlight conditions. 

Anyway, sadly Nokia has fallen a long long way since the days it was #1 :-( Of which a big blame lies with MS

 

 

10 hours ago, Matthew Hartman said:

They brought a lot of Nokia's employees over to the Redmond campus here in the U.S., including their families, only to let most of them go about 2 months later. I thought this an extremely immoral dick move on MS' part. 


Wow! Just wow :-o Didn't know about that. Shocking

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1 hour ago, IronFilm said:


Back in the day I was a big time cellphone geek, especially keen on the best built in cameras I could get in a smartphone. Thus a big fan of Nokia. As their Nokia N82 was amazing! (for its time) And Symbian OS was pretty good too for an early smartphone. Had a Sony Ericsson K810i too before that, and a Sony Ericsson K800i before that! The Xeon flash is what really set them apart for the time if you wanted to take any snaps in lowlight conditions. 

Anyway, sadly Nokia has fallen a long long way since the days it was #1 :-( Of which a big blame lies with MS

 

 


Wow! Just wow :-o Didn't know about that. Shocking

Nokia was a top brand, especially in Europe. It didn't quite have the same mass following here in the states, that went to Apple and Samsung, but those of us that knew about phones and the cameras on them knew the Nokias blew everything out of the water in spades in that regard. The megapixel count on these devices were insane.

As much as MS played their part in the destruction of the brand, the truth is Nokia was in trouble as a company and MS was willing to purchase them to save them. Not that different from Google buying HTC's phone division, whom I also worked for as well. Apple and Samsung have dominated this market.  

But bless Panasonic for trying...

Panasonic Lumix CM1-smartphone-camera.jpg

This in a phone, not a point and shoot. 

You may also like this article:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ewanspence/2018/01/27/hmdglobal-nokia10-pentalens-camera-new-leak-rumor/

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20 hours ago, Matthew Hartman said:

Nokia was a top brand, especially in Europe. It didn't quite have the same mass following here in the states, that went to Apple and Samsung, but those of us that knew about phones and the cameras on them knew the Nokias blew everything out of the water in spades in that regard. The megapixel count on these devices were insane.


Think of pre-iPhone days, Apple didn't exist as a player in the cellphone market. Back then even in the USA you had Nokia as one of the major market leaders.

 

 

20 hours ago, Matthew Hartman said:

But bless Panasonic for trying...

Panasonic Lumix CM1-smartphone-camera.jpg

This in a phone, not a point and shoot. 


A friend of mine has the Panasonic CM1! I've been tempted a few times myself to buy one. 

Wish 1" sensors with a prime lens were more common in smartphones. 

Heck, I wish I could buy a point & shoot with a 1" sensor with a prime lens!! But such a camera doesn't exist. 

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On 1/29/2018 at 9:06 PM, IronFilm said:

Wish 1" sensors with a prime lens were more common in smartphones. 

Heck, I wish I could buy a point & shoot with a 1" sensor with a prime lens!! But such a camera doesn't exist. 

Then you're probably going to like the rumors that RED themselves are touting about their Hydrogen One phone camera module. They claim it's going to house one of the sensors of their normal RED lines. Base price (without the module) is said to be $1,600. 

gsmarena_003.png.e74890d0458a4477d274cc984189d518.png

If I'm not mistaken, that sure looks like a lens release button in the upper right corner to me. I'm also seeing a variable apeture ring. 

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2 hours ago, Matthew Hartman said:

Then you're probably going to like the rumors that RED themselves are touting about their Hydrogen One phone camera module. They claim it's going to house one of the sensors of their normal RED lines. Base price (without the module) is said to be $1,600. 

 


It will have a near S35 sensor shooting compress RED raw for $1.6K?! Color me skeptical 

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