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jonpais

Say Your Goodbyes to V-Log Lite and Cinelike D

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5 hours ago, buggz said:

I couldn't get this to work for me:

- Under Color Management select:
-- Rec 2020 HLG ARIB STD-B67 for Input Color Space
-- Rec 2020 HLG ARIB STD-B67 for Timeline Color Space

The colors are WAAAY oversatured, especially red.  
I am using a calibrated NEC PA272W monitor.   
I'm thinking this would require a Rec 2020 capable and calibrated monitor?
I don't understand, it looks very bad to me.

I purchased the Lemming LUT a while back, I've never used LUTS, guess it's time to learn and try them now...

 

 

 

Paul Leeming suggests that you shoot with HLG and then use his new LUT in REC709 colorspace, exactly as you would with V-Log. I have not tested it yet though.

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2 hours ago, jonpais said:

I’d be interested in learning how @Vesku is able to record HLG at 4K 30p 8 bit, when I am not. Not just a little weird, since over at dvxuser, Vesku says the opposite just yesterday:

HLG profile works only with 10bit modes. It is disabled with 8bit.

Yes normally it is disabled for 8bit modes.

I have saved a 8 bit video adjustments in C1 memory. When I use that C1 video preset which is 4k 60P and then change the video format to "mp4 HEVC" the camera still uses 100Mbs 4k 30P but it allows the HLG profile. It is a bug but it gives interesting new option. It works only with 30P.

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8 minutes ago, Vesku said:

Yes normally it is disabled for 8bit modes.

I have saved a 8 bit video adjustments in C1 memory. When I use that C1 video preset which is 4k 60P and then change the video format to "mp4 HEVC" the camera still uses 100Mbs 4k 30P but it allows the HLG profile. It is a bug but it gives interesting new option. It works only with 30P.

Care to snap a picture of the LCD screen with your smartphone?

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14 minutes ago, jonpais said:

What I'm seeing is 10 bit rec 2020, not 8 bit.

Did you go via C1-memory route and  then selected HEVC mode keeping mode dial in C1 position?

My camera screen says 100Mbs 4k and HLG.

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9 minutes ago, jonpais said:

That's why I deleted that post. It's 100Mbps 4:2:0 8 bit, not worth bothering with.

Sony uses 4k 100Mbs 8bit 4:2:0 LOG/HDR profiles. 

Yes GH5 100Mbs 30P 8bit HLG is pointless but 8bit 4k 60P HLG would be useful for me for some scenes.

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I can’t say one way or the other, since I’ve never shot 60p with the GH5. And like many here, I’m just learning about HLG and HDR myself, though according to everything I’ve read over at Wiki,  mysterybox .com, provideo coalition and elsewhere, 8-bit color is not widely accepted for acquisition, in fact, it is not recommended at all. 

Art Adams, writing for Provideo Coalition, cautions:

One should NEVER record to the Rec 709 color gamut, or use any kind of Rec 709 gamma encoding. ALWAYS capture in raw or log, at the highest bit depth possible, using a color gamut that is no smaller than P3. When given the option of Rec 2020 capture over P3, take it.

Source

Mystery Box also advises avoiding 8-bit color:

So in summary, when choosing your kit for HDR, consider:

16 bpc > 14 bpc > 12 bpc > 10 bpc > 8 bpc: 10 bpc should be your minimum spec.

RAW > LOG > Linear > Gamma 2.4: avoid baking in your gamma at all costs!

Camera Native / BT.2020 > DCI-P3 > Rec. 709 color primaries

RAW > Compressed RAW > Intraframe compression (ProRes, DNxHR, AVC/HEVC Intra) > Interframe compressed (AVC/H.264, HEVC).

Source

Lastly, Paul Leeming suggests going with Cinelike D if it isn’t possible to shoot HLG in 10-bit. 

Yet few YouTubers or websites have questioned Sony’s decision, at least as far as I know, since the a7r iii is not of great interest to me.  This could be for a number of reasons, such as the close working relationship many of these sites have with Sony. Or it could be they’re just waiting to test it out themselves. Or, as kidzrevil speculates, it may not be of paramount importance if the footage isn’t undergoing much grading.

Andrew’s is the only article I’ve read that really questions Sony’s choice to go with the low bit rate:

The camera now shoots 4K in Hybrid Log Gamma for compatibility with the latest 4K HDR TVs, like the Panasonic GH5. Unlike the GH5 however, it is held back by the 8bit 4:2:0 codec. HDR and HLG require a very wide colour gamut, so we’ll have to examine very carefully in the review whether this camera is really capable of a nice 4K HDR image without banding and colour problems.

I guess we’ll find out the answer soon enough.

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58 minutes ago, jonpais said:

....8-bit color is not widely accepted for acquisition, in fact, it is not recommended at all....

Jon, have you watched GH5 10bit HLG clips straight from SD card using Your LG OLED TV card reader or USB card reader? I think the HEVC 72Mbs HLG files should play correctly and easily with new HDR TVs. Can you see the quality difference (banding, etc) compared to 8bit videos?

I have watched HEVC 10bit 4k 60P demos with my Panasonic AX800 65 inch TV (from SD card) and those looked better than my GH5 8bit 4k 60P videos even when my TV has no HDR feature and super bright panel.

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10 minutes ago, jonpais said:

I'm not sure I know how.

Just shoot a clip with "Record mode HEVC 72mbs" and put that SD card in TV card reader or if the TV has no card reader use USB adapter/TV USB port. Play the file with TV media player.

Or copy the file to USB hard drive and use it with TV USB port. The TV media player should recognize the HLG profile. If not I think HDR/HLG can be turned on manually.

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10 hours ago, Vesku said:

No. I just figured that it is possible to record 8bit 30P with HLG profile. But not 60P so no joy :(

I was more referring to this part:

On 8.11.2017 at 8:55 AM, Vesku said:

8bit 4k 60P 150Mbs is wonderful codec. I think it is the cleanest 4k codec in GH5. It has almost no macro blocking or compression rubbish. It is like very high quality JPG photo. It is cleaner than 100Mbs 4k 30P or 24P.

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13 hours ago, jase said:

I was more referring to this part: 4k60P better...

Here are comparison crops from GH5 4k 60P 150Mbs vs 30P 100Mbs. 60P has less compression rubbish and it has only 1.5 x bitrate of 30P 100Mbs. 

Sorry of topic.

30P-60P.jpg

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Yes the same very high shutter speed about 1/500s to stop motion in both.

In 30P the compression and big macro blocks smooths details away in complex motion. I have sharpened and added saturation to see the difference better. 60P is not so noisy normally. I think 60P can follow motion more precise because it must render smaller motion differences between frames. 60P compression may also be a little more efficient because it uses h.264 high profile 5.2 compared to 30P h.264 high profile 5.1.

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