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jonpais

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I wonder why there is no HLG or similar high dynamic range profile for 8 bit modes. I shoot mainly 4k 60P and it would be nice to have all the sensor dynamics for  high contrast scenes without v-log route. Besides I am not willing to pay v-log 100$.

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Because 8 bit leads to stepping.

When you’re shooting with HDR mastery in mind, use the highest bit depth (and bit rate) available.  If you’re using a camera that stores its footage in a compressed 8 bit format, you’re going to do yourself a world of disservice when it comes to grading in HDR.  The same reason that all HDR formats require 10 bits minimum applies to the camera - 8 bits causes stepping.  If you’ve shot in a LOG format, it’s possible to get away with using 8 bit sources, but you can’t push the footage as far as it’s able to go, and are very likely to see stepping in the whites.

If an 8 bit camera is your only option, and you still want / need HDR, consider using an external ProRes, DNxHR, or other high bitrate, intraframe, 10b+ per channel recorder.  You’ll save yourself a world of hurt in post.

Source

Incidentally, the same standard applies, whether shooting Arri, Canon or Red. 10 bit is considered the absolute minimum for HDR. So, Panasonic is no oddball just because they are ahead of the curve.

Not to be snarky, but if you're not willing to invest $100 in V-Log, I wonder if you're really prepared to shoot HDR.

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I can do beautiful 8 bit JPG photos from RAW with great dynamic range (GH5 max about 13 steps) and they have no stepping. I am not talking about HDR now, just normal 8 bit files with all the sensor dynamic range. Now with Natural or CineD I loose highlights in very contrasty scenes. GH5 should have a "normal looking" profile using the whole GH5 sensor range, not clipping extremes. Idynamic and HL/SH adjustments help a little.

4k 60P 10bit HLG would be great. I think it would be possible in-camera (HEVC 150-200Mbs) because GH5 can send it via HDMI. The data is already there, the GH5 needs to just write it to SD.

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Sorry, @Vesku, I'm really trying to understand you, but I can't. First of all, we're not talking about stills, we're talking video. There is no 8 bit HDR standard. The standard for HDR is 10 bit. If you want to change that, I'd complain to the consortium responsible for coming up with those requirements, not Panasonic. If you're shooting in very contrasty scenes where you're losing detail in the highlights, I'd either recommend shooting at a different time of day, changing composition or using diffusers to block direct light from hitting the subject. Perhaps you could shoot those scenes in 30p rather than 60p. What exactly does a normal looking profile mean? I'm really lost here... Most serious folk who shoot video that I know of don't like i-dynamic. At all. 4K 60p 10 bit HLG would be great, no question about that. So would RAW 16 bit. But we already knew when purchasing the camera that it didn't shoot RAW, that it didn't have built-in ND filters, that it couldn't shoot 240 fps, so why not just deal with it? 

I'm not trying to put you on the spot here, but do you have any videos you could share with the online community?

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2 hours ago, jonpais said:

1. First of all, we're not talking about stills, we're talking video.

2. If you're shooting in very contrasty scenes where you're losing detail in the highlights, I'd either recommend shooting at a different time of day, changing composition or using diffusers to block direct light from hitting the subject. Perhaps you could shoot those scenes in 30p rather than 60p.

3. What exactly does a normal looking profile mean?

4. I'm not trying to put you on the spot here, but do you have any videos you could share with the online community?

1.  Video is just a stream of still images.

2. I would rather have a video file containing those lost highlights because GH5 sensor can see those. 

3. A profile without grayness of V-log or complexity of HLG. A profile watchable straight out of camera containing the whole sensor dynamic range. It would not be "normal looking" in normal scenes but useful in extreme light. In fact the GH5 has artistic filter "High dynamic" and it can be used with 4k 60P. It has quite limited exposure options but I must try it.

4. What do you want to see? Clipped highlights or vibrating lenses?

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I accidently figured how to use HLG profile with 8bit 30P 100Mbs GH5 video. I thought it works only with 10bit modes. Unfortunately GH5 wont let me use HLG profile with 4k 60P. Maybe I will figure it out later.

I think it is a bug but it is fun to test 8bit HLG. It has very good dyn range.

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14 minutes ago, Vesku said:

I accidently figured how to use HLG profile with 8bit 30P 100Mbs GH5 video. I thought it works only with 10bit modes. Unfortunately GH5 wont let me use HLG profile with 4k 60P. Maybe I will figure it out later.

I think it is a bug but it is fun to test 8bit HLG. It has very good dyn range.

a 4k60p 8 bit HLG would be perfect. Should have way less banding than vlog in 8 bit.

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A flat profile (free) using the whole sensor dynamics like HLG and the whole 8bit scale 0-255 would be useful for me too. I use almost always 4k 60P and it would be nice to get more dynamic range for sunsets or for other high contrast scenes. 8bit 4k 60P 150Mbs is wonderful codec. I think it is the cleanest 4k codec in GH5. It has almost no macro blocking or compression rubbish. It is like very high quality JPG photo. It is cleaner than 100Mbs 4k 30P or 24P.

I can use HLG with 8bit 30P but I have not figured out how to use it for 60P.

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8 bit does work for HDR but I doubt its as good as it is in its 10 bit flavor. Sony has their own 8 bit HDR recipe that works with their cameras and their displays. Maybe there is a way to display 8 bit HDR without perceptible differences with 10 bit unless doing heavy post production

DB70261C-3EE8-4D31-B1BE-978823B2D762.png

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12 hours ago, Vesku said:

A flat profile (free) using the whole sensor dynamics like HLG and the whole 8bit scale 0-255 would be useful for me too. I use almost always 4k 60P and it would be nice to get more dynamic range for sunsets or for other high contrast scenes. 8bit 4k 60P 150Mbs is wonderful codec. I think it is the cleanest 4k codec in GH5. It has almost no macro blocking or compression rubbish. It is like very high quality JPG photo. It is cleaner than 100Mbs 4k 30P or 24P.

I can use HLG with 8bit 30P but I have not figured out how to use it for 60P.

Interesting. You got examples for that?

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I couldn't get this to work for me:

- Under Color Management select:
-- Rec 2020 HLG ARIB STD-B67 for Input Color Space
-- Rec 2020 HLG ARIB STD-B67 for Timeline Color Space

The colors are WAAAY oversatured, especially red.  
I am using a calibrated NEC PA272W monitor.   
I'm thinking this would require a Rec 2020 capable and calibrated monitor?
I don't understand, it looks very bad to me.

I purchased the Lemming LUT a while back, I've never used LUTS, guess it's time to learn and try them now...

 

 

On 10/28/2017 at 6:40 PM, buggz said:

And this information on another forum, I hope to try all this soon:

"Yes, HLG is available with 6K anamorphic mode.
In another note, besides Paul's excellent HLG LUT, you can also use HLG natively with Resolve 14 for Rec 709 delivery:
- In Project Settings, under Color Management, Change to Davinci Color Managed
- Under Color Management select:
-- Rec 2020 HLG ARIB STD-B67 for Input Color Space
-- Rec 2020 HLG ARIB STD-B67 for Timeline Color Space
-- Rec 709 HLG ARIB STD-B67 for Output Color Space
In this way I am getting quite similar results - I haven't compared color accuracy, etc, but in general both look georgeous.
Paul's LUT has the advantage that it can be used when the project is not color managed in this way, so you can mix and match footage"

 

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