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jonpais

Say Your Goodbyes to V-Log Lite and Cinelike D

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Just finished my very first doc using HLG:

All surf scenes were shot in CineD (4k60p), all non-surf scenes were shot in HLG (150mbit). Used Leeming LUT for the HLG scenes as base for my grading. Suprisingly, the Leeming LUT for CineD did not change the image at all when applying it?

Lessons learned:

- Use a lav for interviews. Even though I mounted the Rode VideoMicro next to him there were way too many background noises. I am no audio expert, so all attempts to filter those noises resulted into non-natural sounding audio

- Now that I am used to non-slowmo shooting, I have to admit that the 60p didnt add as much as I thought it would. If I had to shoot it all over again, I would probably buy some V90 cards and shoot everything in HLG 400mbit.

 

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Is possible any way for deliver the hlg footage for youtube as hdr, and let it make the correct sdr/hdr conversion for each display?

I'll try to explain my workflow (windows-premiere) and my trouble:

1. I'm gradding my footage and using Driftwood Hlg Lut.

2. Exporting as Hdr , rec2020,h264 for youtube.

3. Youtube see it as HDR footage but interpret colours in a weird way.

So, when in sdr version colours get muddi, and in a hdr tv colours blow away and over saturated.

Example:

exported as hdr

exported as sdr:

 

If i export as sdr, in rec709 everything looks fine.

Any sugestion will be apreciated.

 

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1 hour ago, Grimor said:

Is possible any way for deliver the hlg footage for youtube as hdr, and let it make the correct sdr/hdr conversion for each display?

I'll try to explain my workflow (windows-premiere) and my trouble:

1. I'm gradding my footage and using Driftwood Hlg Lut.

2. Exporting as Hdr , rec2020,h264 for youtube.

3. Youtube see it as HDR footage but interpret colours in a weird way.

So, when in sdr version colours get muddi, and in a hdr tv colours blow away and over saturated.

Example:

exported as hdr

exported as sdr:

 

If i export as sdr, in rec709 everything looks fine.

Any sugestion will be apreciated.

 

This isn't the HDR thread, but the problem is that you're using a LUT that converts rec2020 to rec709. 

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Thanks @jonpais .

So, if i stay in rec2020 after gradding everything will be ok with my youtube "hdr try"?

Are the Leeming Lut converting to rec709 in the same way?

 

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@Grimor Right, you’ll need to grade the HLG footage in rec.2020 for HDR delivery.

9 minutes ago, Grimor said:

Thanks @jonpais .

So, if i stay in rec2020 after gradding everything will be ok with my youtube "hdr try"?

Are the Leeming Lut converting to rec709 in the same way?

 

The Leeming LUT is for converting HLG footage to rec709.

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9 minutes ago, jonpais said:

@Grimor Right, you’ll need to grade the HLG footage in rec.2020 for HDR delivery.

The Leeming LUT is for converting HLG footage to rec709.

I found the hdr thread you says, and go to take a look.

Thank you again jonpais!

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Hi,

cheers for all help, examples and learning opportunity here.

I've been testing my GH5 with Standard, HLG and Vlog. 

I really like HLG skin tones. What I wanted to ask though is about how the codecs hold up. I did stress test of where the image starts to fall apart and surprisingly, HLG falls apart pretty quickly whereas Standard and Vlog hold up very well. Here are some examples:

HGL (graded/fixed):

HLG.thumb.jpg.79fb604cd9ce067c449a3de119d8cf4c.jpg

STANDARD (untouched):

STANDARD.thumb.jpg.90ab4a0043247fe2e2ae2dc831b41175.jpg

VLOG (graded):

VLOG3.thumb.jpg.c268702c750e83bbcd52ddde117d70e1.jpg

 

STRESS TEST for HLG where it falls apart very quickly (LUMETRI: VIBRATION ~70)

5afa1e48e1bbf_ScreenShot2018-05-14at7_22_34PM.png.f79a1401231aa78db40eea97cffbc99f.png

 

Any idea why it happens ? 

Cheers,

MD

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9 hours ago, dolzproductions said:

Hi,

cheers for all help, examples and learning opportunity here.

I've been testing my GH5 with Standard, HLG and Vlog. 

I really like HLG skin tones. What I wanted to ask though is about how the codecs hold up. I did stress test of where the image starts to fall apart and surprisingly, HLG falls apart pretty quickly whereas Standard and Vlog hold up very well. Here are some examples:

HGL (graded/fixed):

HLG.thumb.jpg.79fb604cd9ce067c449a3de119d8cf4c.jpg

STANDARD (untouched):

STANDARD.thumb.jpg.90ab4a0043247fe2e2ae2dc831b41175.jpg

VLOG (graded):

VLOG3.thumb.jpg.c268702c750e83bbcd52ddde117d70e1.jpg

 

STRESS TEST for HLG where it falls apart very quickly (LUMETRI: VIBRATION ~70)

5afa1e48e1bbf_ScreenShot2018-05-14at7_22_34PM.png.f79a1401231aa78db40eea97cffbc99f.png

 

Any idea why it happens ? 

Cheers,

MD

Happens to both HLG and V-Log.
@Andrew Reid figured it out while testing the 400 Mbit codec (appears using every other codec as well).
Other Gammas are not affected by this kind of rasterization pattern.

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10 hours ago, dolzproductions said:

STRESS TEST for HLG where it falls apart very quickly (LUMETRI: VIBRATION ~70)

I've found out that AP handles HLG and Vlog (both 8 and 10 bit), transcoded or not, much worse than Resolve whether it comes to manual grading or just applying LUT. Dunno  why. I blamed h264 decoder at first but converting to prores didn't make things better. So it's color engine by itself I guess.

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1 hour ago, jonpais said:

I’ve never seen these artifacts in my footage.

and you shouldn't Jon; it's only when you really push the image for a test. I was only comparing how fast the image degrades. 

Aside from this test I also did 150mbit vs 400mbit and there was no significant difference for pushing these images. 

 

 

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13 hours ago, dolzproductions said:

Any idea why it happens ? 

 

I think that you need to provide information about your method/operations of choice for grading, in general and particular at this sample. If you are in Resolve, for example, too much dealing with Log controls are highly vulnerable, especially in midtones. Etc.

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1 hour ago, anonim said:

I think that you need to provide information about your method/operations of choice for grading, in general and particular at this sample. If you are in Resolve, for example, too much dealing with Log controls are highly vulnerable, especially in midtones. Etc.

thanks.

Sorry I didn't communicated clearly too.  I'm not surprised that it falls apart - they all do on a so called 'stress test'. My concern is that only HGL fell so quickly in comparison to VLOG and STANDARD. Thought there's an easy explanation why it happens on this mode.

 

 

 

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Hi, I'm sorry for my hard question.

If someone has used both HLG and Cinelike D for UHD videos, can you tell me the different ones in practice? Not the ones you read on the Internet. Don't tell me to read something by looking on Google, because I often read untrue messages. I'd like to know from someone who has actually used both HLG and Cinelike D, what the differences are IN PRACTICE, when you use the GH5 in difficult conditions, in which there is a lot of light like that of the African noon, black people on red earth. Last month I used the "Natural" profile by lowering the contrast and colors and ND to -2 in the GH5 menu. A month ago I was in Angola, but this time too I failed on the shoots. I always get bad experiences with my camera, even if I use it in manual. I have always got many clips to throw in the garbage because the clips were often underexposed with plastic effect and harsh colors. ;) I use a SLR Magic Reflex filter 62mm magic 0.4-1.8 variable ND Filter - Mark II which I believe is excellent and I know it is not the problem.  Many of my clips are underexposed, with dominant color, harsh colors on the skin to frighten, very contrasted images that I can partly recover by lowering the contrast to -5, etc. I also take into account that I often don't have the right time to be able to manage fine the GH5 before shooting.
I tried many tests in my countries and I made perfect clips. But when I go to african villages, I can't get those good clips anymore. So on my next trip I would like to try a new option that I have never tried and I'd like to ask if there is someone who has used both, the "HLG" and "Cinelike D" with the GH5. For the moment I have discarded V-Log because it suffers bad exposures and they must be good. I'd like to know the practice of their behavior, not the theory. I have always used my GH5 in 50p 8bit because I love 50p more than 25p, but this time I would like to do something completely different. I would like to shoot in 25p 10bit, using HLG or Cinelike D and to export from Edius 9 to h.265. Any advice?
1000 thanks

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3 hours ago, FoxAdriano said:

Hi, I'm sorry for my hard question.

If someone has used both HLG and Cinelike D for UHD videos, can you tell me the different ones in practice? Not the ones you read on the Internet. Don't tell me to read something by looking on Google, because I often read untrue messages. I'd like to know from someone who has actually used 

I've used both. The key for both HLG and VLOG is not too underexpose. With a flatter image that is easy to do. To nail skin exposure the best way is to set your zebras for skin and go off that rather then trying to expose for the sky and not taking skin into account. If you are shooting African skintones(dark) you'll want to set the zebras at 45-55 IRE. 

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