Fredrik Lyhne Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 @Mattias Burling How much did you pay for the Leica Q in Sweden? They're usually listed for at least 10 000 NOK (1300$) more than the A7r ii in Norway on the used market, but then you would need a lens on the Sony off course... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted September 10, 2017 Author Administrators Share Posted September 10, 2017 12 hours ago, Trek of Joy said: Personally I'd take the A7rII/Batis 25 over the Q. The Batis is a very good lens and with 42MP you have ability to crop to 28mm, 35mm, even 50mm no problem. So it's a very capable choice on paper. I just dislike intensely the way it handles ergonomically as a stills camera... With the amazing video specs you kinda forgive it for being such a potato... But not for stills, vs a Leica. And it is of course much heavier and larger than the Q. Badly balanced, soulless feel, fiddly buttons, you name it. The live-view is 60fps on the Q and super sharp, it feels 3D and has a pop to it... The A7R II live-view feels slower, mushier, with iffy colour. I also prefer the JPEGs from the Leica and the lens is a 28mm F1.7 - longer and faster aperture means more shallow DOF than the Batis 25mm F2 The EVF is much sharper on the Q and it's a more responsive camera in general... start-up, menus, continuous burst, etc. I also find the AF to be right up there with the A7R II, sometimes quicker, which you don't expect from a Leica. Quote I like the rendering of the RX1rII better too, but that's a personal thing The RX1R II has a dreamy rendering, the 35mm F2 feels very different to the 28mm F1.7 on the Q It lacks some of the 'drama' and 'excitement' of the Q's lens when you nail a shot though. It has less 'energy'. Personally I like both for image quality and it depends on what you're shooting which one comes out the better... The RX1R II is quite a bit smaller... But not as nice ergonomically, it feels cramped and the pop-up EVF is very uncomfortable - pokes you in the eye socket. And of course 35mm isn't quite wide enough vs 28mm, to be considered for wide-angle work. Ideal for general purpose stuff though. Sony should have put a 28mm F1.4 on there Quote I spent some time playing with the Q in Tokyo and Hong Kong, AF-c and eye AF is far superior in the Sony. Yes but the AF-S is better on the Q most of the time and the lens is quieter focussing. The RX1R II lens still grinds like the old RX1. Quote Plus there's video, better DR in the Sony and so on... It's close with video, I don't see better DR on the RX1R II - it lacks S-LOG for a start. Both 1080/60p images are quite nicely detailed on the Q and RX1R II. Maybe slight edge to the Sony but better colour on the Q. Quote I'm not a red-dot hater at all, I've owned a few R lenses including a 28, 35, 50 and the 35-70/4 is one of my all-time favorite lenses for video. I just didn't find anything particularly special about the Q other than its size and feel in hand - which I did like. It's easy to underestimate the Q and think "is it worth the money"? I didn't think it was the first time I tried it, so sent it back to the shop. This is my second go, because I missed it A LOT, thought it all the time, especially every time i took a one-off nice photo on my Samsung S8 and realised it would have been even better on the Q by a factor of 10. There is nothing else like it which is full frame. There's only the RX1R II but that has a very different design philosophy behind it... It lacks the Leica minimalism and the features don't have room to breathe. The value of it isn't just in it's scarcity though, the images are insane. Both are superb cameras (RX1R II and Q) - the most fun you can have with a stills camera aside from maybe the Noctilux on a Leica M. Until there is a mirrorless camera system as good as the Q and as small, it will remain very unique. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members Mattias Burling Posted September 10, 2017 Super Members Share Posted September 10, 2017 30 minutes ago, Fredrik Lyhne said: @Mattias Burling How much did you pay for the Leica Q in Sweden? They're usually listed for at least 10 000 NOK (1300$) more than the A7r ii in Norway on the used market, but then you would need a lens on the Sony off course... Lately the asking price is k24SEK. There was one yesterday. You could probably get it a bit lower with regular hassling. Mine was in a store with warranty for k25SEK which is exactly double the amount I got when I sold my X100f. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted September 10, 2017 Author Administrators Share Posted September 10, 2017 3 hours ago, Mattias Burling said: If I could ever find an A7rii that cheap I would give it a go. Ive only seen them for more than a used Q costs. And thats body only. Sweden must have a very cool used market because in the UK the Q goes for a minimum of £3000 second hand (last year it was £2700... it's gone up because of rarity) That's £1000 more than a used A7R II. Leica are keeping stocks low on purpose to uphold the prices. Hardly anyone has new stock in the UK at the moment. I should visit Sweden and tour the classified ads before I get another Leica I will probably sell my Sony RX1R II soon if anyone is interested, I'll post it on the forum for sale section! 2 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said: Mine was in a store with warranty for k25SEK which is exactly double the amount I got when I sold my X100f. So around £2400?... A nice bargain. Red Dot Cameras in London has them used quite regularly, in mint condition with warranty... But you will pay £3000 for one. Easier to handle if you divide it in half and say £1500 was for the 28mm F1.7! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trek of Joy Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 7 hours ago, Mattias Burling said: One thing is that it costs way less than Ive ever seen an A7Rii go for. But like you say, its a personal thing. Some will buy the Q over the Sony just for the leafshutter. The Q I was looking at was $4000 new at Bic Camera, same at the HK stores and its the same at B&H in the states. Even used they're still well over $3000 on Fred Miranda. I realize its different where you are, but that's what I was looking at. 44 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said: The Batis is a very good lens and with 42MP you have ability to crop to 28mm, 35mm, even 50mm no problem. So it's a very capable choice on paper. I just dislike intensely the way it handles ergonomically as a stills camera... With the amazing video specs you kinda forgive it for being such a potato... But not for stills, vs a Leica. I'm not fan of A7 ergos either. But the stills on the A7rII are still better, more DR and more detail. Leica's Panasonic sensors are a generation behind Sony, if not more given the A9's advancements. Colors can be matched in LR. If you prefer the lens that's another story. 44 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said: The RX1R II is quite a bit smaller... But not as nice ergonomically, it feels cramped and the pop-up EVF is very uncomfortable - pokes you in the eye socket. And of course 35mm isn't quite wide enough vs 28mm, to be considered for wide-angle work. Ideal for general purpose stuff though. Sony should have put a 28mm F1.4 on there Yes but the AF-S is better on the Q most of the time and the lens is quieter focussing. I agree that the RX1 is a little too small and the EVF is cramped, it would be much more user friendly if it were a little bigger. You can add a WA adapter to make the RX1 go wider. http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1369103 Depends on your preferences, I love the Sonnar rendering and the 35mm FL - or I'd prefer to be a little wider than 28mm, for me 24/25 or 35 works better. Again YMMV. But the sensor and the AF in the RX1rII is still superior, so I'd rather hack a wide angle adapter and get the better IQ. Or just live with the A7rII to get IBIS, better video and use smaller lenses like the Batis 25 or FE 28/35/55/85. I've almost bought a Q (and the RX1rII) a number of times after renting - I really do like it, just can't quite commit to a single FL when there are now so many good Fuji and Sony FE lenses. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredrik Lyhne Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 50 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said: Lately the asking price is k24SEK. There was one yesterday. You could probably get it a bit lower with regular hassling. Mine was in a store with warranty for k25SEK which is exactly double the amount I got when I sold my X100f. Wow, that's a bargain!! 10K less than the aking price in Norway. You should ship them across the border and sell them at finn.no. What's the used site in Sweden for camera gear, except blocket.se? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members Mattias Burling Posted September 10, 2017 Super Members Share Posted September 10, 2017 7 minutes ago, Fredrik Lyhne said: Wow, that's a bargain!! 10K less than the aking price in Norway. You should ship them across the border and sell them at finn.no. What's the used site in Sweden for camera gear, except blocket.se? Blocket is still the best. Many ship to Norway including the store I bought from, Scandinavian Photo. I thought they had a store in Oslo already? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredrik Lyhne Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 19 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said: Blocket is still the best. Many ship to Norway including the store I bought from, Scandinavian Photo. I thought they had a store in Oslo already? Thanks, I didn't know that. I just assumed there were some better sites for photo/video stuff. They have a store in Oslo but the used prices are usually very high, especially on popular items. I did by my G85 there for 40% off on the spring campaign, so they definitely have some good deals occasionally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trek of Joy Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 1 hour ago, Mattias Burling said: Lately the asking price is k24SEK. There was one yesterday. You could probably get it a bit lower with regular hassling. Mine was in a store with warranty for k25SEK which is exactly double the amount I got when I sold my X100f. Dang, wish I would have known that, I was touring Sweden back in June. Sweet deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members Mattias Burling Posted September 10, 2017 Super Members Share Posted September 10, 2017 3 hours ago, Andrew Reid said: I should visit Sweden and tour the classified ads before I get another Leica You should, let me know if you ever are in Stockholm and we can go street shooting. Let me know a week or so beforehand and I will try to hook you up on the used market. Depending on what you want that is. Some stuff isn't as cheap. Luckily mirrorless is where the big bargains are at here Here is a "test". Leica Q and the Leica M9 + Voigtländer 28mm Ultron. Almost two years separating them, not the same weather, grade, etc. Both are cropped but still very sharp and loads of detail. (you have to click on the to see the full resolution.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted September 10, 2017 Author Administrators Share Posted September 10, 2017 Yeah would love to. I'll let you know, Always wanted to visit Stockholm! You can see that in reality, the light makes more difference than 10 years of sensor improvements I still can't quite seem to part with my M9 even though I got a bargain on a M-P (based on Typ 240) recently and the live-view is a great bonus. It has video, but not used it much for that yet. Kodak did the best sensors in the world before they flushed it all down the toilet. The Hasselblad medium format chips were leading the entire world in sensor tech in 2007, before Sony was even in nappies and lagging Canon. Sure today Sony has the march on tech specs vs everyone else in the CMOS market and the largest share too. But do they have SOUL???! Mattias Burling 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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