tugela Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 2 hours ago, thefactory said: I really like my Sony action cams and RX100 4 but the some of the specs on this are a step backwards. I get the lack of 4K due to heat issues. But the battery they are using is smaller than the RX100/Acton cam battery and only 700mah. anyone that uses the RX100 for video will know, it eats battiers for breakfest. I can’t see the rx0 being able to shoot for long periods without power or extra battiers . And they could do better than f4 for low light. Very keen to see how the implement the slow mo functions. If it’s 1 button push and no stuffing around that will be useful. On the RX100 by the time you set up the camera for hfr you have missed the moment. I do like the waterproofing, the cage and the ability to use filters. Probably end up getting one for a play, but I’m already waiting for the rx0 Mark II. The main source of power consumption on the RX100 is likely powering the motors for the lens and the display. This RX0 does not have a zoom lens, and the lens it does have is much smaller (= lower power requirement). And during remote operation the rear display likely powers off. So you will not require as large a battery. In terms of power requirements it is closer to the small point and shoot cameras than the RX100 series, even if it has the same size sensor. F4 is OK, because unless you want a small DOF for some reason there is rarely any reason to shoot faster than that. For an action camera that needs to be small and at the same time have enough operational leeway to function without operator input, some compromises need to be made, and limiting the aperture to F4 or smaller is entirely reasonable. Otherwise your action camera would be less than small and that would defeat the whole purpose. The RX0 Mark II with the specs you seem to want is already here. It is called the RX100 Mark V. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefactory Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 1 hour ago, tugela said: The main source of power consumption on the RX100 is likely powering the motors for the lens and the display. This RX0 does not have a zoom lens, and the lens it does have is much smaller (= lower power requirement). And during remote operation the rear display likely powers off. So you will not require as large a battery. In terms of power requirements it is closer to the small point and shoot cameras than the RX100 series, even if it has the same size sensor. F4 is OK, because unless you want a small DOF for some reason there is rarely any reason to shoot faster than that. For an action camera that needs to be small and at the same time have enough operational leeway to function without operator input, some compromises need to be made, and limiting the aperture to F4 or smaller is entirely reasonable. Otherwise your action camera would be less than small and that would defeat the whole purpose. The RX0 Mark II with the specs you seem to want is already here. It is called the RX100 Mark V. Not sure about your battery comment. Have you ever shot hfr on the RX100 4/5? The battery is chewed up very quickly. If you are using rx0 for hfr (if it’s implemented well, it’s one of reasons I would buy it) I cant see how that tiny battery could last. Looks like the have developed a gimbal for it. i don’t speak Spanish but there seems to be many accessories in this video that look useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gt3rs Posted September 2, 2017 Author Share Posted September 2, 2017 8 hours ago, tugela said: Why do you think it has no aperture? Looks to me that it has a fixed focal length lens with a minimum aperture at F4. It looks to me like a camera that is meant to be attached to something, or work in multiple camera setups. A fixed focal length is perfectly fine for those applications. It focuses the same way as every other camera. Which should be obvious since it has both manual focus and autofocus modes. What makes you think it can't focus? It has a fixed aperture at F4. You can dream that it goes to F16 but they forgot to write it anywhere because is not that important;-) Action camera are used also in lowlight and combined with the light needed for hfr a 2.8 lens would be quite usefull. I do a lot of low light sports so for me 2.8 would have been better. DJI manages to put a 24mm 2.8-11 lens on a 1' sensor in a tiny package so Sony should have done it too... thefactory 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinegain Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 Btw, have you guys seen this? https://www.mi.com/camera-small/ 4K - f/2.8 - 6-axis EIS - 1450mAh... 699 CNY (retailers serving international markets I've seen from 121,99 USD). Like... don't expect miracles concerning image quality (Sony 1/2.3" IMX317 & Ambarella A12S75 tho) at that pricetag. But, atleast atleast it sounds sorta interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markr041 Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 On 9/1/2017 at 5:42 PM, tugela said: Why do you think it has no aperture? Looks to me that it has a fixed focal length lens with a minimum aperture at F4. From the specs: "F-number (Maximum Aperture) F4.0 (Fixed)" That's why. Does the GoPro have fixed aperture? yes. Does the Sony X3000 have a fixed aperture? yes. On 9/2/2017 at 10:24 AM, Cinegain said: Btw, have you guys seen this? https://www.mi.com/camera-small/ 4K - f/2.8 - 6-axis EIS - 1450mAh... 699 CNY (retailers serving international markets I've seen from 121,99 USD). Like... don't expect miracles concerning image quality (Sony 1/2.3" IMX317 & Ambarella A12S75 tho) at that pricetag. But, atleast atleast it sounds sorta interesting. If we are going to start flogging alternatives, then the Yi 4K+ should be listed: its is the only action cam that can do 4K 60p (at 135 Mbps), and it does not overheat even close to what the GoPro's and the Sony X3000 and Rx100 V do, and I am sure the RX0 will do. The Yi 4K+ has the latest Sony 1/2.3" sensor and the latest 14nm Ambarella processor (heat efficient and fast). https://www.yitechnology.com/yi-4k-plus-action-camera Cinegain 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_David Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 On 9/1/2017 at 5:42 PM, tugela said: Why do you think it has no aperture? Looks to me that it has a fixed focal length lens with a minimum aperture at F4. It looks to me like a camera that is meant to be attached to something, or work in multiple camera setups. A fixed focal length is perfectly fine for those applications. It focuses the same way as every other camera. Which should be obvious since it has both manual focus and autofocus modes. What makes you think it can't focus? Yes, fixed aperture sucks. Going to need some kind of neutral density. Especially shooting slog2 - if they lock that at like 1600 ASA! Going to need a variable ND on there!!! it's an sony exmor RS sensor 1'' -type (13.2mm x 8.8mm) vs The go pro sensor https://gethypoxic.com/blogs/technical/gopro-hero5-tear-down-and-software-study SONY IMX117 (1/2.3") - 6.17 x 4.56 So it's twice as large of a sensor, so probably much less noisy, so a f/4 isn't that big of a deal. http://photoseek.com/2013/compare-digital-camera-sensor-sizes-full-frame-35mm-aps-c-micro-four-thirds-1-inch-type/ go pro's 35mm equivalent is 16.21mm - but that has significent barrell distortion. the sony's is: 24mm, probably a lot less. but for me, the only look I like from the go pro is "medium" crop - https://gopro.com/help/articles/Question_Answer/HERO5-Black-Field-of-View-FOV-Information which is 21mm focal length. 21mm vs 24mm is not that big of a focal length change. but no stabilization which sucks. So I think Sony could have a better go pro style camera on their hands. But still, at the end of the day, why not use the sony rx100 iv which has a 24mm focal length, but also stabilization and 4k and a aperature and built-in nds? hmmmmm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefactory Posted September 9, 2017 Share Posted September 9, 2017 Have you seen the prices on the accessories? They are insane. want to ad a filter? $150 for the filter plate Add a cage? $250 for the privilege. Spare lens protector? $100 and yes, it’s waterproof. But to make it dive proof, and as mentioned in another post. That will cost you $900. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/items/ci/36982/N/3499661351 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IXTUS Posted September 10, 2017 Share Posted September 10, 2017 在2017/9/9时间下午6:58，嗅觉说： 你看过配件上的价格吗？他们疯了 想要广告过滤器？过滤板$ 150 添加笼子？250美元的特权。 备用镜头保护膜？$ 100 是的，它是防水的。但是让它潜水证明，并在另一篇文章中提到。这将花费你900美元。 https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/items/ci/36982/N/3499661351 Jesus, what is this learning gopro！ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tugela Posted September 11, 2017 Share Posted September 11, 2017 On 9/3/2017 at 1:54 PM, Ed_David said: Yes, fixed aperture sucks. Going to need some kind of neutral density. Especially shooting slog2 - if they lock that at like 1600 ASA! Going to need a variable ND on there!!! it's an sony exmor RS sensor 1'' -type (13.2mm x 8.8mm) vs The go pro sensor https://gethypoxic.com/blogs/technical/gopro-hero5-tear-down-and-software-study SONY IMX117 (1/2.3") - 6.17 x 4.56 So it's twice as large of a sensor, so probably much less noisy, so a f/4 isn't that big of a deal. http://photoseek.com/2013/compare-digital-camera-sensor-sizes-full-frame-35mm-aps-c-micro-four-thirds-1-inch-type/ go pro's 35mm equivalent is 16.21mm - but that has significent barrell distortion. the sony's is: 24mm, probably a lot less. but for me, the only look I like from the go pro is "medium" crop - https://gopro.com/help/articles/Question_Answer/HERO5-Black-Field-of-View-FOV-Information which is 21mm focal length. 21mm vs 24mm is not that big of a focal length change. but no stabilization which sucks. So I think Sony could have a better go pro style camera on their hands. But still, at the end of the day, why not use the sony rx100 iv which has a 24mm focal length, but also stabilization and 4k and a aperature and built-in nds? hmmmmm You don't need stabilization since a camera like this is going to be attached to something anyway. Stabilization can be done in post. Does the RX100 have real ND filters? I thought it used electronic ND. The camera is likely to be used shooting at 60 fps or higher (quality is maintained up to 240 fps), so using shutter speed to control exposure is ok in most situations. You have the option to attach filters to the lens if you need additional reduction of light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Maze Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 Did an extensive comparison with RX0 and new GoPro Hero 6. Bottom line, I actually really like the RX0 now. Don Kotlos 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Kotlos Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 Thanks Dave, The quality of the Sony is really on another level when compared to the gopro. P.S. Your videos have come a long way since last time I watched one, I really like the flow. That audio though... The lav is clipping quite a bit... Kisaha and Santiago de la Rosa 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Maze Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 20 minutes ago, Don Kotlos said: Thanks Dave, The quality of the Sony is really on another level when compared to the gopro. P.S. Your videos have come a long way since last time I watched one, I really like the flow. That audio though... The lav is clipping quite a bit... Thanks, Don! Really appreciate it! Ya...I was using the Rode Smartlav going into my phone. I recorded using the voice memos app, which automatically levels the gain. It was clipping quite a bit. I need to use a different app from now on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kisaha Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 @DaveAltizer yep..sound! maybe use a small recorder from Tascam to connect to your lav, sound is very important and can elevate your videos quality much higher, do not underestimate good sound on videos, and most phones that do not advertise their DAC and the such, ain't that good on sound. What camera did you use for the video (except the 2 action cams obviously!)? I have some lav recommendations if you'd like. The Sony wireless system is quite cheap, the included mic is of rather good quality (not stellar, but you get it almost for free) and it can be connected to Sony cameras through the hot shoe (I do not own any Sony, just mentioning that because a lot of people do). Rode wireless system is quite good too, fully digital, and the price is silly, if you do not mind the size of RX/TX. If you have money to burn, the Sennheiser digital wireless system (not the old G3 and the such) with the MKH mic (not the cheaper ME version) is really really good, with a very advanced "auto-gain" function (which isn't auto gain, but just to simplify it) that saves a lot of work in post later on, the TX/RX are very small, the smallest cheap-o of the cheap (cheap, I mean less than a thousand!), plus, the advanced lav is of really pro quality (and small size). Sony is great, 1" on an action camera is what we need. For me the 1" is the starting point for being serious, but I am not 100% sold on this. It seems less than an action cam, and more like a small camera. I think there is a lot of noise reduction happening in Sony, too, but overall, great image. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Maze Posted November 11, 2017 Share Posted November 11, 2017 14 hours ago, Kisaha said: @DaveAltizer yep..sound! maybe use a small recorder from Tascam to connect to your lav, sound is very important and can elevate your videos quality much higher, do not underestimate good sound on videos, and most phones that do not advertise their DAC and the such, ain't that good on sound. What camera did you use for the video (except the 2 action cams obviously!)? I have some lav recommendations if you'd like. The Sony wireless system is quite cheap, the included mic is of rather good quality (not stellar, but you get it almost for free) and it can be connected to Sony cameras through the hot shoe (I do not own any Sony, just mentioning that because a lot of people do). Rode wireless system is quite good too, fully digital, and the price is silly, if you do not mind the size of RX/TX. If you have money to burn, the Sennheiser digital wireless system (not the old G3 and the such) with the MKH mic (not the cheaper ME version) is really really good, with a very advanced "auto-gain" function (which isn't auto gain, but just to simplify it) that saves a lot of work in post later on, the TX/RX are very small, the smallest cheap-o of the cheap (cheap, I mean less than a thousand!), plus, the advanced lav is of really pro quality (and small size). Sony is great, 1" on an action camera is what we need. For me the 1" is the starting point for being serious, but I am not 100% sold on this. It seems less than an action cam, and more like a small camera. I think there is a lot of noise reduction happening in Sony, too, but overall, great image. Of course! You don’t have to convince me about audio! Thanks for the recommendations. I’m thinking about picking up the RodeLink. RX0 II that will record 4k internal will be the one to get if this type of camera is something you need. Kisaha 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Kotlos Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 I don't know why they didn't also go for native c-mount: https://www.back-bone.ca/product/ribcage-rx0/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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