Anaconda_ Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Hey guys, I've got the opportunity to buy a Ninja Assassin for a crazy price (less than €400 with sunhood), and so I thought borrowing a friends VA would give me good enough files to test with and see if it's worth it. I had it set to ProRes HQ - why not test at maximum ability - and from what I can tell, the VA image looks almost exactly the same as the internal h264 recordings, but is just a little greener. Even with a bit of grading, I can't see any noticeable change. Am I missing something here? I was expecting to see a huge improvement. Annoyingly, the LS300 can't record internal 4K 422 AND output 4K through the HDMI - so in a way, I'm stepping down a level right? I understand all the numbers look to be an improvement, but is all that only handy for a heavy grade? If there's not a big difference, isn't it better to record 4K 422 internally, and then get a 1080p proxy form the VA/Ninja to edit with? One thing I can see the Assassin having over the VA is the ability to record with LUTs baked in, so you have a nice quick turn around, but also have the log footage for later if need be... Anyway, I'm temped to buy it just for that, and it'll be a nice monitor with peaking/histogram etc. etc. but I was really hoping for something a bit more. Also, I plugged it into my GX80, and again, there's nothing mind blowing about it. You can check out some raw files here, and let me know if I'm just overlooking something. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/0yd1ketyuru9jzn/AADSX49l8mwjrzmUhFZlMKj2a?dl=0 (files may still be uploading) Grimor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inazuma Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 The GX80 will understandably have no difference when recorded externally since it probably outputs only 4:2:0 8bit. I dont know the specs of the LS300 but again, if its output is no better than the internal codec then you wont see a difference. Even if the internal codec is inferior, you may not see much of a difference until you film something with more extremes (more different colours, tones, movement). From what ive read previously, external recording allows 4k 60p, which you cant do internally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpais Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 30 minutes ago, Inazuma said: The GX80 will understandably have no difference when recorded externally since it probably outputs only 4:2:0 8bit. I dont know the specs of the LS300 but again, if its output is no better than the internal codec then you wont see a difference. Even if the internal codec is inferior, you may not see much of a difference until you film something with more extremes (more different colours, tones, movement). From what ive read previously, external recording allows 4k 60p, which you cant do internally. The GX80 outputs 8 bit 4:2:2 through HDMI, just like the G80. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Sewell Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 You'll see the main differences in scenes with lots of movement and/or lots of fine detail - use of a low compression codec results in far fewer motion artefacts, better cadence and less smearing of detail. You'll also - as you surmised - have a lot more flexibility in post and be able to place much more extreme grades (should you need to) on the output. You'll also be able to do much higher quality green screen, if that's your bag. kidzrevil 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members BTM_Pix Posted August 14, 2017 Super Members Share Posted August 14, 2017 At that price, I'd buy it now and worry about the subtleties later ! You'll get your money back and then some all day long if it doesn't bring enough to the party for you. But with the LS300 it's going to give you 4K60p recording and edit ready ProRes, neither of which the camera can do so its a hell of an upgrade for €400 just for that alone. And that's before we get to it as a monitor to make up for the joke of an EVF that JVC have seemingly recycled from an old 'What The Butler Saw' machine for the LS300. The exposure aids on the Assassin are also an absolute boon when using JLOG. jonpais 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members BTM_Pix Posted August 14, 2017 Super Members Share Posted August 14, 2017 EDIT Hang on.... My old brain was thinking about the Ninja Inferno and not the Assassin. The Assassin doesn't do 4k60p so scrap that part of the equation. "All" you will be getting for your money is edit ready ProRes, great monitoring tools for both cameras and audio recording for your GX80 Still a bargain! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaconda_ Posted August 14, 2017 Author Share Posted August 14, 2017 That's exactly what I'm thinking. Although I won't get 4k60p with this monitor unfortunately. That's the Inferno line, this is Assassin. Still - Looking at other monitors that don't record - I'm looking at this kind of price anyway, so I'll take the ProRes and a nice little extra. I'm picking it up later today. Also, I think by tomorrow they'll release that 5inch 4k recorder/monitor I've been waiting for - on the condition I buy this one first... BTM_Pix, EthanAlexander and jonpais 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpais Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 exactly! ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members BTM_Pix Posted August 14, 2017 Super Members Share Posted August 14, 2017 13 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said: Also, I think by tomorrow they'll release that 5inch 4k recorder/monitor I've been waiting for - on the condition I buy this one first... This is the truest thing on the internet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EthanAlexander Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 6 hours ago, Anaconda_ said: Also, I think by tomorrow they'll release that 5inch 4k recorder/monitor I've been waiting for - on the condition I buy this one first... For the sake of all of us here waiting for the 5 inch... Please PLEASE go ahead and purchase the 7" jonpais 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Kotlos Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 20 hours ago, Anaconda_ said: One thing I can see the Assassin having over the VA is the ability to record with LUTs baked in, so you have a nice quick turn around, but also have the log footage for later if need be... Anyway, I'm temped to buy it just for that, and it'll be a nice monitor with peaking/histogram etc. etc. but I was really hoping for something a bit more. Have you compared the footage from the Assassin with the LUT baked in or applied in post? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaconda_ Posted August 14, 2017 Author Share Posted August 14, 2017 3 hours ago, Don Kotlos said: Have you compared the footage from the Assassin with the LUT baked in or applied in post? My tests were with the Black Magic Video Assist, which doesn't allow you to bake the image in. I picked up the Assassin this afternoon, so will head out and get some delicious test footage on Wednesday. The video is missing from the topic you posted, but does it basically say to get the LUT baked in is the way to go? I was planning on using it that way anyway, for a quicker turn around, or if someone else needs to edit my footage. One of my client's workflow doesn't allow time for colouring, so I've previously tried to get it nice in camera, but I'd rather have log files for backups. This way, I can do both! I'm already loving the 'straight to hard drive' workflow. It's certainly a fun thing to play with and get ready for a day out haha. jonpais 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Kotlos Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 23 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said: The video is missing from the topic you posted, but does it basically say to get the LUT baked in is the way to go? I don't know why he deleted that video but he mentions the same thing in the description from another video: "Interestingly it produces a superior result over adding the same LUT in post. macro blocking and picture breakup are very much reduced." So yes get that LUT baked in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadcode Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 On 8/13/2017 at 9:32 PM, Anaconda_ said: Hey guys, I've got the opportunity to buy a Ninja Assassin for a crazy price (less than €400 with sunhood), and so I thought borrowing a friends VA would give me good enough files to test with and see if it's worth it. I had it set to ProRes HQ - why not test at maximum ability - and from what I can tell, the VA image looks almost exactly the same as the internal h264 recordings, but is just a little greener. Even with a bit of grading, I can't see any noticeable change. Am I missing something here? I was expecting to see a huge improvement. Annoyingly, the LS300 can't record internal 4K 422 AND output 4K through the HDMI - so in a way, I'm stepping down a level right? I understand all the numbers look to be an improvement, but is all that only handy for a heavy grade? If there's not a big difference, isn't it better to record 4K 422 internally, and then get a 1080p proxy form the VA/Ninja to edit with? One thing I can see the Assassin having over the VA is the ability to record with LUTs baked in, so you have a nice quick turn around, but also have the log footage for later if need be... Anyway, I'm temped to buy it just for that, and it'll be a nice monitor with peaking/histogram etc. etc. but I was really hoping for something a bit more. Also, I plugged it into my GX80, and again, there's nothing mind blowing about it. You can check out some raw files here, and let me know if I'm just overlooking something. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/0yd1ketyuru9jzn/AADSX49l8mwjrzmUhFZlMKj2a?dl=0 (files may still be uploading) GX80 heavy grade just for you The hue vs luma slider is always a killer only raw is able to handle it, but that was the easiest way to show the difference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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