Super Members Mattias Burling Posted June 29, 2017 Super Members Share Posted June 29, 2017 When the BMPCC was new and I posted test footage I often got asked about the look I got. They used the same lens, same film convert but didn't get as "nice", "sharp" or "filmic" results. The reason was that I always used the levels tools to slightly crush the shadows and blow some highlights. People, and Im talking about real non nerd people, still like contrast. tweak, rndmtsk, TwoScoops and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoScoops Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 28 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said: People, and Im talking about real non nerd people, still like contrast. As mainly a stills guy so far, I've found this too... Mattias Burling and rndmtsk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpais Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 @Mattias Burling There may be instances when crushed shadows and blown highlights are effective for stylistic reasons, but trying to pigeon-hole people who don't share your opinion only makes you look silly. Do real non nerd people also prefer heavy-handed grading, blurry images, harsh lighting and distracting out of focus backgrounds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyalinejim Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 1 hour ago, Bioskop.Inc said: here we have someone who has actually put some contrast/colour into his images & people call foul - it's a real shame & a very boring position to take. I agree 100%. People have been afraid of contrast and saturation for a number of years. As well as the proliferation of Log, I think it has to do with a felt inadequacy of video's dynamic range versus film, where crushed blacks are perceived as a giveaway that something was shot on video. However, as deezid has already pointed out, the blacks here are not "crushed". They are sitting where they are supposed to: at or near 0 IRE. Again I urge anyone who is concerned with making video look cinematic to study how film has been translated for display on Rec709 devices: http://blubeaver.ca/ Download some stills and look at them on a waveform. Bioskop.Inc 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members Mattias Burling Posted June 29, 2017 Super Members Share Posted June 29, 2017 1 minute ago, jonpais said: @Mattias Burling There may be instances when crushed shadows and blown highlights are effective for stylistic reasons, but trying to pigeon-hole people who don't share your opinion only makes you look silly. Do real non nerd people also prefer heavy-handed grading, blurry images, harsh lighting and distracting out of focus backgrounds? I think you need to reread my post without a pair of defensive glasses on. I have not pigeon-holed anybody nor anything else that makes me look silly. I just added a couple of thoughts to what could be a meaningful discussion about the problem all people that hang out here, including nerds like myself, face. We risk the chance to be "home blind" and forget about the real people out there, you know the audience, the non nerds... They are at the end of the day our bosses. What they like goes. But to answer your questions, yes they do, its starting to drift a little. But that's normal with any trend. If we look at the last 20 years so what you call "heavy-handed grading, blurry images, harsh lighting and distracting out of focus backgrounds" have been considered "professional" looking. That's merely because the real non nerd people haven't been able to get those looks with their own equipment. Its been unobtainable and different = professional an likable. When they hire someone to shoot video they want something different than what they can get them self. Before it was easy. Just use a tripod and good audio and you kicked their ass. Today the world is different. Everyone and their cat has a tripod or stabilized lens. A large sensor and a decent mic. So today we must once again look at what we can offer to our clients and audience. But there are of course a few things that never go out of style. Story, good music, great acting, good exposure and to some degree contrast. People seem to enjoy contrast. But please note that I haven't even commented on the video at hand nor the response to it. I just commented that contrast isn't always a bad thing and shadows can be both crushed or not and still look good. Why do you think every new camera that's ever been mentioned on this forum gets a dedicated thread with people bashing the crushed shadows. Just to a make a new thread a few weeks later celebrating the shadow detail? Its not because Panasony doesn't know that "nerds" like raised shadows. Its because they know that the big chunk of non nerds out their like it their way. And they are more important. ade towell, Cas1, j_one and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Sewell Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 I've always been a little unsure about this never-ending desire to see detail in shadows. I mean - sometimes, if there's something in those shadows that you particularly want or need to see then - yeah - I get it. On those occasions you need to expose (or light if you're able) to reveal it. But most of the time I just can't se the point. Film, video, photography - even used journalistically they're not reality, where you can see into shadows with your human eyes; they're a stylised representation of reality where you, as the artist, get to use light and dark to convey a 3d scene into 2d, to model and sculpt, to draw attention and imply emotion. Seeing into a shadow is important for a sensor demo but for art - especially narrative art - it seems a particularly silly aspect of the whole to get uptight about. FWIW I think the OP's teaser is a compelling and beautiful piece of art. His placement of black tones on the response curve is immaterial to that. hyalinejim, graphicnatured, kidzrevil and 4 others 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronChicago Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 On 6/27/2017 at 0:28 AM, deezid said: Shot on the GH5 in 3 days. A concept trailer done having a zero budget for our upcoming first feature film. I really like what I can squeeze out of the internal 10 bit V-Log footage. DR, lowlight and colors are really good. Everything was shot with sharpening and nr set to -5 and a Tiffen Black Pro Mist filter applied in front of the lens (12-35mm 2.8 V1, 20mm 1.7, 42.5mm 1.7) to make it smoother. Colorgrading done in Davinci Resolve. Drone shots by the DJI Mavic (the internal sharpening is hideous tbh...). Glad to see you picked up a GH5! Emanuel and deezid 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizz Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 2 hours ago, Tim Sewell said: I've always been a little unsure about this never-ending desire to see detail in shadows. I mean - sometimes, if there's something in those shadows that you particularly want or need to see then - yeah - I get it. On those occasions you need to expose (or light if you're able) to reveal it. But most of the time I just can't se the point. Film, video, photography - even used journalistically they're not reality, where you can see into shadows with your human eyes; they're a stylised representation of reality where you, as the artist, get to use light and dark to convey a 3d scene into 2d, to model and sculpt, to draw attention and imply emotion. Seeing into a shadow is important for a sensor demo but for art - especially narrative art - it seems a particularly silly aspect of the whole to get uptight about. FWIW I think the OP's teaser is a compelling and beautiful piece of art. His placement of black tones on the response curve is immaterial to that. AMEN!! kidzrevil 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tihon84 Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 Hi. So many noobs videos from gh5... this one is good looking, thanks:) You know what? Gh5 is a really cool professional camera, but its cheap... anyone can buy it and upload the video to youtube or vimeo and as a result we have so much videonish , iphonelike footages. RED looks like RED not because it is a good camera, but because it always in a good hands. In the hands of people who know how to light scene, how to framing etc. i really wayt when someone of this pro guys will take this little piece of magic (gh5) and shoot something Hollywood looking:) Sorry for my english JazzBox 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidzrevil Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 @Bioskop.Inc oh God I hated the SOOC ungraded LOG look ?? I know hella people who associated the look with high end productions. Remember when the teal & orange M31 LUT look was the go to aesthetic ? LOL ! Or how about the green shadow tint used & abused in 1990's action movies ? Maybe the confusion is everyone defines "cinematic" differently cause its a subjective word. Cinema is art and every artist paints their pictures differently Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoScoops Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 This was one of the worst offenders: Emanuel, deezid, benymypony and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzynormal Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 1 hour ago, tihon84 said: RED looks like RED not because it is a good camera, but because it always in a good hands. I wouldn't agree with that considering some of the RED footage I've had to deal with in my life! Anyway, it's all so subjective. I have a preference for trashy looking motion pictures because those are the kinds of film projections I grew up on. Others will have different ideas about stuff. I'm not an IQ snob, but it's okay of you are. Oh, and regarding the authorship vs. grammar metaphor from earlier in the thread: http://preview.tinyurl.com/ycpahrdn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EthanAlexander Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 On 6/28/2017 at 10:23 AM, mercer said: However I will agree the blacks are crushed, but I don't mind crushed blacks every once in a while. And I can understand checking different devices and everything looks good but then when you upload it, it seems off. For instance on my computer, this is the best, most cinematic screen grab. The highlight roll off is perfect, just the right amount of contrast to add that beautiful milky sheen. Beautiful actress. And then when I uploaded it here... LOL. Personally, I think it looks great deezid. It's kinda sad the crushed shadows are getting so much pushback. Oh, and I noticed you're in austin... Me too deezid 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidzrevil Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 3 hours ago, TwoScoops said: This was one of the worst offenders: Jesus Christ I hate that flat look ugh...not one crushed shadow to be found though lmao Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 52 minutes ago, kidzrevil said: Jesus Christ I hate that flat look ugh...not one crushed shadow to be found though lmao I remember after Technicolor released CineStyle, for Canon cameras, there was an onslaught of SOOC Flat "cinematic" videos posted on YouTube... I wondered if any of these people ever watched a movie. But has anybody watched this season of Fargo? The last couple episodes they did a beautifully desaturated look in the exteriors. I swear it was almost black and white but with color skin tones. It looked so cool. kidzrevil 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidzrevil Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 @mercer dont remind me ! Everything looked super flat, it made t3i owners feel like they had an ARRI ?? post screenshots of the episode if you can. I thought their trailers looked pretty dope. Do you think the gh5 could shoot images like that ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 28 minutes ago, kidzrevil said: @mercer dont remind me ! Everything looked super flat, it made t3i owners feel like they had an ARRI ?? post screenshots of the episode if you can. I thought their trailers looked pretty dope. Do you think the gh5 could shoot images like that ? Man it was difficult finding some examples and these are the closest I could come across. It's crazy the amount of looks that they used this season. Honestly, you're a better colorist than me, so you'd probably know better if it is obtainable with a GH5. I think @AaronChicago made a LUT for the GH5 emulating one of the various looks from this season of Fargo, so he'd probably know better than me. Are you thinking of taking the GH5 plunge? Now I just like this shot and color... Emanuel, kidzrevil, graphicnatured and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpais Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 @mercer what's not to like? ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 19 minutes ago, jonpais said: @mercer what's not to like? ? Yeah she is a work of art. Good actress too. Emanuel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidzrevil Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 @mercer yeah the gh5 looks promising. APS-H crop in 4K with the metabones speedbooster xl stands out to me the most Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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