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Digital S16 marketing, Black Magic vs. Digital Bolex

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what Digital Bolex creators have said:

 

 

The Mini camera is interesting, I will admit I might buy one just to have as a point and shoot instead of the point and shoot I have, but I'm not going to shoot a movie on it. And if you look at it as a point and shoot that has the possibility of future raw, but currently doesn't offer it, $995 is actually pretty expensive.

 

vegetableman, I'm not sure there are any nails being thrown around this NAB, we talked to a lot of people at our booth today that were still really excited about the D16. I think as long as we get these things working really soon and can deliver soon too we will be OK.

 

so which company atm deserves to be at the forefront for digital S16 fun?  

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

I suppose a lot hangs on timing as well as those in the future statements. D16 will ship with RAW for those who want it. The BMDPCC won't ship with it, and we don't know when it's going to ship!

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Digital Bolex has global shutter, Pocket Cinema Camera doesn't.

 

Since neither camera has yet shipped neither company has much room to talk! ;)

 

Let's wait and see on this one.

 

I personally think DB are doing a good job.

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Digital Bolex is $3299 retail... For me, that's not a comparison at all. I never considered the Bolex because of the price. I pre-ordered the Pocket Camera as fast as I could. It's quite a difference.

 

If price doesn't matter, I hope the Bolex offers more than the BMPCC and I guess it does. Anamorphic 4:3 mode, XLR, etc.

 

I think the Bolex is more for filmmakers who want that S16 look. The BMPCC is for everyone who wants great quality at a low price. The small sensor is just a consequence.

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Blackmagic have shown they can actually finish a camera and ship some units, which is more than Digital Bolex can lay claim to.
I'm not convinced that DB will ever be finished. I'd love it to be, because the idea of a tiny upstart challenging the majors in even a small way is very appealing, but the constant production delays don't inspire confidence. They recently announced that they have to do a redesign because the sensor doesn't fit in the body. That's after showing off the 'production model' body on their site, mind.

I can't help but feel really bad for these guys. Any hype that still remained for their product is gone. They really pushed the novelty of being able to use old super 16 lenses on a digital body as a selling point for their camera. Well, now you can do that for $2000 less. The other big differentiator was the global shutter. Well, now for $1000 more, you get that, as well as a super 35mm sensor and the option to shoot at 4K. You miss out on uncompressed raw, but you've got to make a trade-off somewhere at that price point. Granted, some people want global shutter and super 16 sensor, but BMD have essentially pushed DB's niche offering into a far smaller niche margin.

This is a battle the Digital Bolex guys can't win. There's no way they can compete with a corporation like Blackmagic's economies of scale. That <$1000 mark is a magic price point, and BMD obviously know it.
The other thing BMD have going for them is consumer confidence. For all their problems in getting the cinema camera out the door, you know that if you go with Blackmagic you'll have access to a global support network, you'll get firmware updates, the company won't fold or give up on the product, and third party accessories and software will support the camera. None of this is guaranteed with the first product from a small upstart.

For all my sympathy for little David being crushed by Goliath, I have to say that the quote in the OP is about the most disingenuous and douchey thing they could say. Come on guys, grow up.
Perhaps the ones I should really feel sorry for are the Kickstarter backers who dropped $3K+ and still don't have a product they pre-paid for, may never see it, and may not even be interested any more if they do. This whole saga is a bitter cautionary tale about crowdfunding.

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Perhaps the ones I should really feel sorry for are the Kickstarter backers who dropped $3K+ and still don't have a product they pre-paid for, may never see it, and may not even be interested any more if they do. This whole saga is a bitter cautionary tale about crowdfunding.

 

Agree with your post, but crowdfunding is like it says: a form of funding. You shouldn't just expect to hit the order button and get everything delivered on time, there are no such guarantees in crowdfunding. Not even in buying from a respectable company like Blackmagic ;)

 

Buying something trough crowdfunding is a risk and you should know it as a backer.

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Agree with your post, but crowdfunding is like it says: a form of funding. You shouldn't just expect to hit the order button and get everything delivered on time, there are no such guarantees in crowdfunding. Not even in buying from a respectable company like Blackmagic ;)

 

Buying something trough crowdfunding is a risk and you should know it as a backer.

For sure, but I think a lot of people who donated weren't thinking this through. I certainly don't imagine they foresaw an outcome like this.

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Agreed, it's a bit of an expensive lesson in the works of crowdfunding... If I was one of them I wouldn't be happy either. It sure made me realise to think very well before jumping the wagon on such projects.

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It's as if not even Vincent LaForet could hype the Digital Bolex back into contention :) I don't think it is as clear cut as 'they are dead'.

 

The Ikonoskop has a lovely image and similar sensor, global shutter, yet Digital Bolex have undercut that with half the price.

 

The Pocket Cinema Camera is amazing but doesn't have the features or global shutter of the Bolex - likely it may not have the image quality either. Certainly anamorphic on the Bolex is a tasty idea for me. The Bolex will have more resolution and likely better colour. I've seen the images that CCD sensor is capable of and they don't disappoint.

 

So let's not write it off. $3200 is not a lot of money compared to a 5D Mark III considering you're getting 13 stops DR, global shutter and raw.

 

They will deliver the camera, they are a small team. Look how at Red's initial ONE and Scarlet delays. They still haven't done anything remotely close to the Bolex for $3000 yet.

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That said I do have sympathy with early customers.

 

Blackmagic and Digital Bolex are putting them through some real misery.

 

If you funded the DB Kickstarter to the tune of a camera and if you pre-ordered the Blackmagic Cinema Camera at the last NAB, and haven't shot with either yet, just be safe in the knowledge that you're supporting the revolution if not actually able to televise it!

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The Pocket Cinema Camera is an amazing product, and the same way the form factor might be used to its advantage, it can also become a downside for many types of shooting.

 

I don't think these 2 cameras are competing cameras, I think they complement each other very well.

 

The Digital Bolex "is" a much more solid 16mm solution, the global shutter alone puts it in a different league IMO, but being able to use it together with the Pocket Cinema Camera and share lenses with it, IMO makes it an even more valuable product.

 

Now once the Digital Bolex starts selling them, bringing the price down a bit would help, it's too close to the 4K BMD camera as it stands.

 

And another thing, DB needs to get some sort of compressed raw codec in there.

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They recently announced that they have to do a redesign because the sensor doesn't fit in the body. That's after showing off the 'production model' body on their site, mind.

 

Totally false. Not sure where this info is even coming from. Anyone who's followed the project knows the issue is now in calibrating the CCD sensor. Cam is 98% finished at this point. Most KS backers are pretty happy IMO, you only have to look at the DB forum to see that.

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Totally false. Not sure where this info is even coming from. Anyone who's followed the project knows the issue is now in calibrating the CCD sensor. Cam is 98% finished at this point. Most KS backers are pretty happy IMO, you only have to look at the DB forum to see that.

Oh really? Seems I was mislead.

In that case, I'm sorry for spreading false information about the project.

For all my negativity on this forum, I have to say that I truly do want to see it succeed.

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The global shutter on the Digital Bolex is a huge selling point for me.   Rolling shutter is difficult to work around with anamorphic if there's any  camera movement involved.  And having owned a Rex-5 at one time, I'm rather fond of the turret mount.  Imagine having three varying primes mounted, each with a baby anamorphic adapter like the Bolex 8mm, or utilizing a mounting method to hold it in front as the turret is rotated.  That could be a dream come true.

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