Canon C100MkII - EVF Cleaning Damage - How Do You Clean Your EVF?

[Karl Hungus]

Hello everyone,

So I'm out in the field a lot and the EVF screen on my C100 MkII eventually got dusty as they normally do. I decided to gently clean the EVF screen with a Qtip and Eclipse Optical cleaning fluid at which point the thin luminescent blue coating began to flake off. It is now difficult to see through the EVF.

I contacted Canon (CPS) explaining the situation and and they said that because I cleaned the EVF myself I was at fault because the camera has to be cleaned by their service department which in my view is absolutely ridiculous! How can they expect cinematographers working in the field to ship their cameras to their service departments for a simple cleaning that normally takes no more than a few seconds. This is a serious design fault that reminiscent of Apple's 'Staingate' issue and Canon is trying to hide this by saying that it has to be cleaned by their service department. I'm sure many owners will now be coming forward with the same issue.

So I'm curious to know if there are others out there who have experienced the same issue and if so, how was it dealt with by yourself and Canon?

I've had many cameras in my day and this is the first one that I've seen that has this luminescent blue coating on the EVF. Has anyone ever seen a luminescent blue coating on an EVF on a camera other than the C100 MkII? Can anyone make a comment on how you normally clean your EFV? 

 

[jcs]

Haven't cleaned the C300 II yet, thanks for the warning. For DSLR's, I first use a blower to remove as much as possible, and water vapor (breath) and a quick wipe with microfiber. Was using soft/fluffy microfiber however they've begun to drop lint. Researched on Amazon and found ROR cleaner (supposed to be safe for all multicoated lenses) and really good microfiber for lenses on Amazon (no lint), ordered.

[Karl Hungus]

Hi JCS, thank you very much for your contribution.

I found a replacement part here for £119.62: https://cvp.com/index.php?t=spareParts&partSearch=DG3-5788-000&manufacturer=4
One can't just buy the blue screen, but the entire assembly.

On a side note, there is a lot of different information circulating on what is the best way to clean lenses (which I assume carries over to other sensitive optical parts like EVFs) and with what materials. Some suggest different kinds of microfiber clothes while some expressly warn against them, breathing on them is not recommended as breath may carry digestive enzymes. This the method I employ, it is informative if you can get past the presenter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUSUIbhh4TA

 

[jcs]

@Karl Hungus I would not use a q-tip from just the force concentration to a small point alone. You want to spread any downward force over the largest area possible to avoid damaging the optics. Second, q-tips aren't rigorously controlled in manufacturing for cleaning expensive optics.

Something like this for those who want to be super careful (individually sealed): https://www.amazon.com/PEC-PAD-Lint-Free-Wipes-100per/dp/B0001M6K24/, https://www.amazon.com/Optical-Lens-Cleaner-Spray-Bottle/dp/B0002HMRF2/ (some folks reported ROR better than Eclipse: https://www.amazon.com/Photographic-Solutions-Eclipse-Cleaning-Solution/dp/B004WBR8C6/).

If you apply the microfiber over the largest area with the least downward force, that will minimize the chance of any damage (really just want to move laterally with almost no downward force at all to remove the cleaning fluid). The truly best solution would be if the solution could completely remove everything then use compressed air to dry and blow away accumulate (basically touch free cleaning).

[tugela]

Those cleaning solutions are just alcohol and water, so it is more likely that the damage was mechanical as a result of how you did the cleaning rather than from the solution itself.

[Karl Hungus]

@JCS As I have mentioned, there are many different report on what constitutes the best way and best materials to clean with. With all due respect, this guy says the opposite of what you have mentioned with regards to microfiber cloths.: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAa-cdtildo.

To be clear, I am not in the habit of 'scrubbing' Qtips across delicate optics.

@ Tugela Good quality lens solution contain methanol, not alcohol.

For those who do scratch off the luminescent blue coating on their EVF screen, another owner who had this happen to also has explained that he removed the EVF assembly, took out the screen and polished off the rest of the blue coating so that it is totally clear. Sorry Canon, you don't get my cash a second time.

My feeling is that the luminescent blue coating is designed to knock back damaging sunlight that may damage to EVF internals. If so, and with it removed, care should be taken to prevent direct sunlight from entering the EVF. Care should be taken regardless.

And finally to all those who will eventually come forward with the same problem, wouldn't it be wonderful if Canon would have coated the 'inside' of the EVF screen with their flimsy luminescent blue coating so you wouldn't have to deal with such an asinine design while preforming a standard cleaning practice that you've done a hundred times before on other cameras?

 

[tugela]

52 minutes ago, Karl Hungus said:

@JCS As I have mentioned, there are many different report on what constitutes the best way and best materials to clean with. With all due respect, this guy says the opposite of what you have mentioned with regards to microfiber cloths.: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAa-cdtildo.

To be clear, I am not in the habit of 'scrubbing' Qtips across delicate optics.

@ Tugela Good quality lens solution contain methanol, not alcohol.

For those who do scratch off the luminescent blue coating on their EVF screen, another owner who had this happen to also has explained that he removed the EVF assembly, took out the screen and polished off the rest of the blue coating so that it is totally clear. Sorry Canon, you don't get my cash a second time.

My feeling is that the luminescent blue coating is designed to knock back damaging sunlight that may damage to EVF internals. If so, and with it removed, care should be taken to prevent direct sunlight from entering the EVF. Care should be taken regardless.

And finally to all those who will eventually come forward with the same problem, wouldn't it be wonderful if Canon would have coated the 'inside' of the EVF screen with their flimsy luminescent blue coating so you wouldn't have to deal with such an asinine design while preforming a standard cleaning practice that you've done a hundred times before on other cameras?

 

What do you think an alcohol is? lol.

The stuff you drink is called ethanol. The term alcohol includes all compounds with a general structure R-OH, the most commonly used (for cleaning purposes) being methanol, ethanol and isopropanol. Any of those should be fine for cleaning glass surfaces. Isopropanol is actually the most commonly used one since it will dissolve fats more readily than the other two and consequently is more effective removing things like finger smudges and the like. Ethanol is pretty good at that as well, but since it is a controlled substance it generally is not used for that purpose.

The "blue" coating is there to reduce reflections that might otherwise obstruct your view. It is the same stuff that is on the elements of your lenses.

 

 

[jcs]

Same issue with C300 II: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?354171-C300-Mark-II-viewfinder-coating-all-screwed-up-unusable

Looks like the coating is fragile and will come off when force is applied. Again, q-tips are a very bad idea due to force concentration.

When wiping the solution with a wipe/optical-microfiber, it's important not to allow any finger to directly apply force- bundle/fold to create a 'spring buffer' between fingers and lens and slide (lens) or twist (viewfinder) without pressing into the lens surface (just enough force to keep in contact).

Pancro (made by Panavision for their lenses) and disposable wipes is a good suggestion from that thread. 

[Karl Hungus]

Quoted from: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?354171-C300-Mark-II-viewfinder-coating-all-screwed-up-u

"... I have to say that that is just F'n ridiculous. Even for Canon... That was just poor engineering. That should be an easily(user) replaceable service part that is $50-$75 max."

Right. And if Canon engineering puts a coating on a viewfinder I would never expect it to flake off with just one light cleaning.

And as I've said: "... wouldn't it be wonderful if Canon would have coated the 'inside' of the EVF screen with their flimsy luminescent blue coating so you wouldn't have to deal with such an asinine design while preforming a standard cleaning practice that you've done a hundred times before on other cameras?"

And if you do scratch this poorly designed (failed) part, the nameless corporate drone at Canon will tell you that you should have sent it to them to be cleaned at your expense. Canon earned 20 billion dollars last year and the CPS rep saved the company 20 cents... bless his tiny heart.

[jonpais]

4 hours ago, Karl Hungus said:

Quoted from: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?354171-C300-Mark-II-viewfinder-coating-all-screwed-up-u

"... I have to say that that is just F'n ridiculous. Even for Canon... That was just poor engineering. That should be an easily(user) replaceable service part that is $50-$75 max."

Right. And if Canon engineering puts a coating on a viewfinder I would never expect it to flake off with just one light cleaning.

And as I've said: "... wouldn't it be wonderful if Canon would have coated the 'inside' of the EVF screen with their flimsy luminescent blue coating so you wouldn't have to deal with such an asinine design while preforming a standard cleaning practice that you've done a hundred times before on other cameras?"

And if you do scratch this poorly designed (failed) part, the nameless corporate drone at Canon will tell you that you should have sent it to them to be cleaned at your expense. Canon earned 20 billion dollars last year and the CPS rep saved the company 20 cents... bless his tiny heart.

$710.00 for a viewfinder??

[jcs]

24 minutes ago, jonpais said:

$710.00 for a viewfinder??

Yeah, parts, labor, and shipping for C300 II. I'd probably get a Gratical-X (http://www.zacuto.com/gratical-x-hdmi-evf) before paying Canon $710 for the stock viewfinder (will be very careful when I clean it!).

[Cinegain]

Zeiss wipes. https://www.zeiss.com/vision-care/en_de/products-services/other-zeiss-brand-products/lens-cleaning-solutions.html#testresults

Ran into those earlier today at the drugstore. Super affordable, non-alcoholic, non-aggressive formula with the claim of not affecting the glass and its coatings. Works on e.g. your portable electronics too.

[jcs]

I've only used the C300 II VF a few times outdoors. I wear glasses most of the time, though it's possible I was wearing contacts when looking through the VF, and perhaps oil from eyelashes created this pattern:

Thought perhaps the coating was cracking/spiderizing on it's own. However after cleaning with ROR and microfiber:

It came off. Microfiber is tricky in this small space, it's not perfectly clean. Going to get some optical swabs (vs. q-tips) to carefully (with very little downforce) get the edges and remaining spots. It's not really needed, it's clear enough to use (and was before cleaning, the pattern only showed up at that angle with light hitting it as shown). Since I rarely use the VF:

I agree that it's insane and super not cool to have to pay over $700 to replace the entire VF assembly vs. just being able to replace the outermost element for around $100 (at most). I'd pay Zacuto $1950 (https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1242176-REG/zacuto_z_gre_gratical_eye_micro_oled.html) before I'd pay Canon $710 to replace this part (would probably get this package: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1293748-REG/zacuto_z_c3002ergreb_c300_mark_ii_gratical.html).

Photos with 1DX II (will post some production info for video soon).

[Karl Hungus]

5 hours ago, jcs said:

I've only used the C300 II VF a few times outdoors. I wear glasses most of the time, though it's possible I was wearing contacts when looking through the VF, and perhaps oil from eyelashes created this pattern:

Thought perhaps the coating was cracking/spiderizing on it's own. However after cleaning with ROR and microfiber:

It came off. Microfiber is tricky in this small space, it's not perfectly clean. Going to get some optical swabs (vs. q-tips) to carefully (with very little downforce) get the edges and remaining spots. It's not really needed, it's clear enough to use (and was before cleaning, the pattern only showed up at that angle with light hitting it as shown). Since I rarely use the VF:

I agree that it's insane and super not cool to have to pay over $700 to replace the entire VF assembly vs. just being able to replace the outermost element for around $100 (at most). I'd pay Zacuto $1950 (https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1242176-REG/zacuto_z_gre_gratical_eye_micro_oled.html) before I'd pay Canon $710 to replace this part (would probably get this package: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1293748-REG/zacuto_z_c3002ergreb_c300_mark_ii_gratical.html).

Photos with 1DX II (will post some production info for video soon).

Just remember that if you damage the evf while cleaning it and try to explain it to Canon the CPS lackey will Tell you that you should have sent it to them to be cleaned.

With the very gentle cleaning I performed, I never thought I would damage mine.

This design is a failure and Canon are standing behind it because, at the end of the day, they would rather lie and take your money again to fix their mistake. Corporate greed.

[jcs]

1 hour ago, Karl Hungus said:

Just remember that if you damage the evf while cleaning it and try to explain it to Canon the CPS lackey will Tell you that you should have sent it to them to be cleaned.

With the very gentle cleaning I performed, I never thought I would damage mine.

This design is a failure and Canon are standing behind it because, at the end of the day, they would rather lie and take your money again to fix their mistake. Corporate greed.

The camera is over one year old, so out of warranty. The user manual states to "clean the lens with a lens cloth (not tissue)"; it does not state the camera must be sent in for cleaning service (which would be ridiculous). The camera doesn't come with a front lens, so this appears to reference the rear viewfinder lens (also explains how to clean LCD in same section). If a camera is under warranty and there was a failure after properly following instructions (i.e. the coating is actually defective), if the warranty is not honored, in the USA one can pursue remedy via the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act.

[mercer]

Man, that sucks... you should have just used toilet paper or a sheet from a dollar store roll of paper towels. I like to use Kleenex... especially the kind with lotion built in. 

No, but seriously I've used a Q-Tip before too but only after I used it in my ears and picked it out of the trash the next day...?

[jcs]

Just now, mercer said:

Man, that sucks... you should have just used toilet paper or a sheet from a dollar store roll of paper towels. I like to use Kleenex... especially the kind with lotion built in. 

I thought you preferred fluorosulphuric acid and steel wool?

[mercer]

1 minute ago, jcs said:

I thought you preferred fluorosulphuric acid and steel wool?

Nah, only on my Zeiss Master Primes. 

[Karl Hungus]

4 hours ago, mercer said:

Man, that sucks... you should have just used toilet paper or a sheet from a dollar store roll of paper towels. I like to use Kleenex... especially the kind with lotion built in. 

No, but seriously I've used a Q-Tip before too but only after I used it in my ears and picked it out of the trash the next day...?

Slow day at the Walmart, Mercer?