kidzrevil Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 gonna wait for a sony a9s.....this sounds promising on paper. Hopefully it doesn't double as a thermonuclear device when it comes to 4k overheating Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Calabros Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 23 minutes ago, kidzrevil said: gonna wait for a sony a9s.....this sounds promising on paper. Hopefully it doesn't double as a thermonuclear device when it comes to 4k overheating Thats the IBIS price you gonna pay. Without a fixed heatsink these sensors should overheat. kidzrevil 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefactory Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 Sheeeeeit - Just saw the Australian pricing. $6799. You can pick you a7rii here new for about $3600. Hate to see the price of a9r or a9s here! If they make them it will have to as good if not better than an fs5 as the price wont be much different. webrunner5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members Mattias Burling Posted April 21, 2017 Super Members Share Posted April 21, 2017 Since its Sony nothing is ever certain. But I would be hugely surprised if they released an A9s. I just don't see any point in doing that. Chrad 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BasiliskFilm Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 20 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said: Since its Sony nothing is ever certain. But I would be hugely surprised if they released an A9s. I just don't see any point in doing that. Most the low light benefit of the A7S is down to the full sensor non-line skipped output. The A9 achieves this for 4K by downsampling. The size of the photosites is less important than the total area covered by them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members Mattias Burling Posted April 21, 2017 Super Members Share Posted April 21, 2017 I just dont see how developing a camera that only photographers that shoot fast action sports in pitch black surroundings and can be profitable. Then again, Sony is probably not making a dime from selling the A7sii either. Time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Burr Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 My A7rII is 42MP. Why is the new A9 only 24MP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Ning Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 I wonder if 6K RAW with 20fps is possible, then 4K RAW cropped with 24fps plus should be alright. And at the same time, S-log is missed for the movie. The thought of Sony product team is not quite comprehensible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrad Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 24 minutes ago, Paul Ning said: I wonder if 6K RAW with 20fps is possible, then 4K RAW cropped with 24fps plus should be alright. If you're okay with melting the tripod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arikhan Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 @Mattias Burling Personally, I don't care about wins & losses of any manufacturer. Adapt and make profits or burn money and retire immediately or in some years. At the end of the day, we don't know Sony's strategy (burning money first for getting considerable market shares at long term?)... Much more interesting for ambitionned stills shooters and pros are some other questions needing clarification: How well will the A9 nail focus compared with its direct competitors 1DX m2 and D5? 20fps means nothing if it doesn't nail focus better than competitors... Focusing reliability and speed in low light, compared to its competitors/low light still cameras (D750, D5, 1DX m2)? Some of the A6300 and even some A7R ii overheated sometimes when shooting stills (after firmware upgrades no more) - hope the A9 doesn't overheat when shooting stills because this could be a deal breaker for many potential buyers (I would immediately return the camera and want my money back - no waiting for a firmware upgrade to solve overheating issues when shooting stills) What does "dust and moisture resistance" mean? Is this a little better than junk consumer cameras, or is this a claim to rely on when shooting outdoor (with all manufacturer warranty commitment implications?) Personally, I don't believe that it could focus fast and reliable in very low light on moving objects (like its DSLR competitors), because no mirrorles can do this until now. I would be very surprized, if Sony disabused me with this point... There is also a point, nearly noone speaking about: the 20fps burst rate is 12bit RAW. You can get full 14bit RAW only when you considerably slow down your burst rate...so 14bit RAW will be the same burst rate as the ancient NX1 from 2014... Kisaha and Marco Tecno 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members Mattias Burling Posted April 21, 2017 Super Members Share Posted April 21, 2017 6 minutes ago, Arikhan said: @Mattias Burling Personally, I don't care about wins & losses of any manufacturer. You and me both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil A Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 41 minutes ago, Arikhan said: How well will the A9 nail focus compared with its direct competitors 1DX m2 and D5? 20fps means nothing if it doesn't nail focus better than competitors... Focusing reliability and speed in low light, compared to its competitors/low light still cameras (D750, D5, 1DX m2)? Some of the A6300 and even some A7R ii overheated sometimes when shooting stills (after firmware upgrades no more) - hope the A9 doesn't overheat when shooting stills because this could be a deal breaker for many potential buyers (I would immediately return the camera and want my money back - no waiting for a firmware upgrade to solve overheating issues when shooting stills) What does "dust and moisture resistance" mean? Is this a little better than junk consumer cameras, or is this a claim to rely on when shooting outdoor (with all manufacturer warranty commitment implications?) Personally, I don't believe that it could focus fast and reliable in very low light on moving objects (like its DSLR competitors), because no mirrorles can do this until now. I would be very surprized, if Sony disabused me with this point... There is also a point, nearly noone speaking about: the 20fps burst rate is 12bit RAW. You can get full 14bit RAW only when you considerably slow down your burst rate...so 14bit RAW will be the same burst rate as the ancient NX1 from 2014... How well will the A9 nail focus: here's a link with a vid but I would wait for independent comparisonshttp://www.sonyalpharumors.com/canon-1dxii-versus-sony-a9/ A9 doesn't overheat when shooting stills: 100% agreed. If that would happen, I think they'd seriously threaten their opportunities to extend into the professional market in the future in that area. It would still be fine for professional portrait, landscape, etc. photographers but those probably would prefer the A7r II anyway. Dust and moisture resistance: There are no "with all manufacturer warranty commitment implications". If your 1Dx II breaks because it got wet you will still rely on Canon's good will to replace it. No manufacturer guarantees that the camera will survive getting wet or dusty, they just say there's a higher chance it will, they are typically not giving IP ratings for their cameras that are industrially defined points of "weather resistance". And about the 12 vs 14bit raw files. I don't think someone shooting a sport event will care, they're not going to photoshop the files until the color breaks like some landscape guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arikhan Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 @Phil A Quote How well will the A9 nail focus: here's a link with a vid but I would wait for independent comparisons Exactly...and for independent reviews on low light focusing capabilities.... Quote Dust and moisture resistance Meanwhile a Sony rep told me: "same like A7s ii & A7r ii"...I know, in such cases (even when working with Canon or Nikon) we have to rely on their good will... Quote And about the 12 vs 14bit raw files. I don't think someone shooting a sport event will care, they're not going to photoshop the files until the color breaks like some landscape guys. There is no "classical" sports photography only - and even in this area, many pros (e.g. doing stock) work in post on some of their stills...There are other events (like meetings, weddings, anniversaries, etc.) where to shoot burst and pick up one of the best takes for post - e.g. a interesting portrait mimics... And...I hate lazy pro photographers refusing to deliver best quality pictures, because refusing post work...It's the kind of German-Canon-post-World-War-2-shooter complaining every minute about customers not willing to pay much for their poor, out of question work in 60s style... Please consider the reality (at least for ambitionned / well paid quality work): Today's photography is 50% post...I know, some news agencies require JPEG nowadays, but as they pay poor prices, there are not many economically successful photographers who sell to them... BTW: In reality there is no much visible difference between "compressed" and "uncompressed" RAW. It's more a topic for bored pixel peepers, self proclaimed keyboard experts and Sony haters... Phil A 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JurijTurnsek Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 Screen does not dim when 4K recording according to Max Yuryev. 1.2x crop for 30p, dpreview twitter, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanveer Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 19 hours ago, noone said: Actually, it seems 20fps is very real and not just clickbait. This camera is made to be mainly used in electronic shutter mostly (where it is completely silent). You only use the mechanical shutter for flash or a few other uses. Look at some of the videos around the place. Way beyond me but very nice. Should be a lot more about it later today as the various sites start putting up more hands on stuff. I am looking forward to seeing what the NON Sony artisan sports PJs that Sony got to test it think. If the Rolling shutter issues are sorted, that would be great. What about the colour depth and picture quality. I would love to see some comparisons between this and the pics coming out of the Nikon and Canon Flagships. Also, if they have nailed it for Electronic Shutter, then it would be the single most significant development, since the creation of mirrorless. Because, the noise, the vibration etc etc are actually handicaps in many ways. Marco Tecno and noone 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 7 hours ago, Michael Burr said: My A7rII is 42MP. Why is the new A9 only 24MP? I would imagine it is due to the fact that they would not have been able to process all that data and maintain the 20fps they wanted. The higher the MP count the more data you have. Plus the files would have been a lot bigger for the Sports guys to try and upload to the web, or to the editors. So that would slow them down. And well it would take a lot more memory card space to save it in the camera. Plus the less MP a sensor has the better the high ISO is. You can have larger photosites to gather more light, = less noise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BasiliskFilm Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 2 hours ago, webrunner5 said: I would imagine it is due to the fact that they would not have been able to process all that data and maintain the 20fps they wanted. The higher the MP count the more data you have. Plus the files would have been a lot bigger for the Sports guys to try and upload to the web, or to the editors. So that would slow them down. And well it would take a lot more memory card space to save it in the camera. Plus the less MP a sensor has the better the high ISO is. You can have larger photosites to gather more light, = less noise. If they could do 8K downsample to 4K they wouldn't use line-skipping in the A7Rii, but as we know from the A6500 they have the processing to perform 6K > 4K. The size of the photosites is less important than the total area covered by photosites - the A7S has better coverage than the A7RII because it reads from the whole sensor without skipping like the A7Rii. In which case I would expect the A9 to do a similarly good job in low light. webrunner5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emanuel Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 9 hours ago, Michael Burr said: My A7rII is 42MP. Why is the new A9 only 24MP? Because that R stands for Resolution. As same as a7S for Sensitivity. The 1st one of the series is always the midway and the introductory version. Resolution only means different needs, not necessarily higher IQ. The same for speed going with vehicles. Guess if that's important for cargo transportation, as for instance ;-) kidzrevil 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 1 hour ago, BasiliskFilm said: If they could do 8K downsample to 4K they wouldn't use line-skipping in the A7Rii, but as we know from the A6500 they have the processing to perform 6K > 4K. The size of the photosites is less important than the total area covered by photosites - the A7S has better coverage than the A7RII because it reads from the whole sensor without skipping like the A7Rii. In which case I would expect the A9 to do a similarly good job in low light. Yeah but Pixel Pitch does matter, the bigger the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tugela Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 10 hours ago, Mattias Burling said: I just dont see how developing a camera that only photographers that shoot fast action sports in pitch black surroundings and can be profitable. Then again, Sony is probably not making a dime from selling the A7sii either. Time will tell. Their development cost structure will be considerably lower than pure photography companies, because the technology used does double duty in other markets as well. The consequence is that development costs for the basic tech such as sensors and processors is leveraged across disparate things such as TV sets and cell phones. That is why companies like Nikon get their silicon from someone else, and companies like Canon are usually on the backfoot when it comes to cutting edge tech - they don't have that advantage of a broader electronics base to leverage their camera tech. Sony can sell a camera at X dollars and recover it's capital investment a lot faster than Canon and Nikon can as a result. They don't need to sell as many copies to get into the black. This is the main reason why Sony (and Panasonic) focus on MILCs.....they can leverage development costs which are primarily on the electronic side. And it is also the reason why Canon and Nikon are so hell bent on DSLRs, because in those cameras the development cost is more heavily weighted to mechanical systems within the camera (which allows them to dominate that part of the market against competition that has a smaller slice). Because of that you will see Canon and Nikon hang on grimly to the bitter end in promoting DSLRs as the "best" option for imaging. 10 hours ago, Chrad said: If you're okay with melting the tripod. RAW does not have significant processor load since there is no heavy compression. So there will be no overheating. The limitations for RAW is the ability of the camera to write data to storage fast enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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