Bruno Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 If they're stepping up their game, it will happen with the 7D2, not with the consumer cameras, though the 70D could also show some significant improvements. I'll eat this blog, eat it whole if the 100D's 'new sensor' gives us a significant improvement... Notice that I said 70D, not 700D or 100D. I also said I wouldn't expect such improvements with consumer level cameras :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Not fair to accuse Nikon of doing the same thing Canon is doing imo. I'm fine with (yearly) incremental upgrades in this segment. As long as they are actually upgrades... From the Canon 300D, 350D, 400D, 450D, 500D to the 550D, there was a steady progress. Not always spectacular, but things changed, the picture quality improved. I can forgive Canon the 600D, the flip screen is a good addition and the sensor wasn't that bad at that time. The 650D and 700D are kind of insulting. The Nikon D3000, D3100 and D3200 each got a new and better sensor, amongst other changes that actually matter. On top of that they are dirt cheap, more in line with the 1100D from Canon. For Photographers, a D3200 is a lot of bang for your buck imo. Nikon's D5000, D5100, D5200 line-up is better compare-able to the Canon Ti/XXD's. All those camera's got major changes with every upgrade. The D5200 has the best aps-c sensor on the market right now, freaking 39 points autofocus, for the same money as Canon's 4 year old 700D with 2013 firmware. That's a hell of a deal you get with the Nikon. The only reason I can think of, why Canon puts out this 700D, is that they are saving their new sensor for the 70D/7D Mark II, to create a bigger difference with the consumer models. So no more 7D in a 550D... Anyway, I don't have high expectations anymore of Canon's new sensor generation, whenever it will come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted March 21, 2013 Author Administrators Share Posted March 21, 2013 Notice that I said 70D, not 700D or 100D. I also said I wouldn't expect such improvements with consumer level cameras :) Listen - 70D will have the same sensor as the 100D according to reports. 700D is the same sensor as the 650D right down to the phase detect AF points on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 I wouldn't be surprised really, but some reports also say they want the 70D to go back to the prosumer segment, with a better feature set than the cheapest models. I guess we'll see next week or so, I don't really care, personally I want to see what the 7D will bring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neumann Films Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Canon's stock (in the last 3 years) was at it's highest in early 2010 which not surprisingly coincides with their only moment of brilliance, innovation wise, in recent memory...the addition of 24p on the Mark II. I put Canon in the same boat as a game developer like EA Sports with the Madden series. Can they just update rosters and menus and spew out the same game over and over while making a huge profit? Probably. At some point though, enough two star reviews on Amazon and negative reviews on blog sites (like this one) WILL take their toll and they will lose their spot as the go to camera for their go to market. It's disappointing for someone that got their start with a T2i because that was when Canon had "it". The Mark II was innovative, the T2i had decent 1080p video for super cheap and they were killing it. I loved Canon. Then they just stopped impressing. Playing it super SUPER safe with both pricing and specs. Do you guys remember the November announcement two years ago? Where they built up the C300 as something that was going to change the industry?!!! Do we need any more evidence that Canon is out of touch with their target audience? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Do you guys remember the November announcement two years ago? Where they built up the C300 as something that was going to change the industry?!!! Do we need any more evidence that Canon is out of touch with their target audience? I agree with the DSLRs not being up to par, but regarding the November announcements, at the time everyone dismissed Canon's C300, and it turned out to be a huge success, way more than the Scarlet. The C300 is the most rented camera at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neumann Films Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 I agree with the DSLRs not being up to par, but regarding the November announcements, at the time everyone dismissed Canon's C300, and it turned out to be a huge success, way more than the Scarlet. The C300 is the most rented camera at the moment. That does not equal success for Canon. For every 100 filmmakers they were marketing to, there is MAYBE one C300 in a rental house. Not a good ratio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabuto1138 Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 The 5D2 was an accident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Messerjocke Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Canon's APS-C sensor isn't the problem. It delivers about 6k resolution, DR and noise are far from perfect but OK. The problem starts with sensor readout, downscaling, and codec/compression. That is where Nikons D5200 and D7100 shine. They do a better job on image/video processing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomekk Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Innovation is what makes money. Canon's profits are down 42% at the last count. So some plan that is! No, innovation doesn't make money. Implying their profit has gone down due to lack of innovation as a main factor is ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmcindie Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Remember guys that Canon is actually a very conservative company. They are not Blackmagic. They don't really do the whole "trailblazing thing". They like to let other companies go first and after that maybe step in. That's how they've always worked. All of the previous professional cams (XF300 etc) usually come by a couple of years later than the competition. This has actually worked very well for them as being the last guy on the block, they usually had some improvements that the competition didn't have (50mbps mpeg2 for example for the xf100-300) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiong Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Yup, no surprise. Move along folks, nothing to see here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tehgeek Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Why people still expect Canon to go out of their way to improve video on a stills (especially a budget) camera is beyond me. They released the C300 etc, that is their focus for video. Their stills cameras are stills cameras, video is just an added feature because they can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Remember guys that Canon is actually a very conservative company. They are not Blackmagic. They don't really do the whole "trailblazing thing". They like to let other companies go first and after that maybe step in. That's how they've always worked. All of the previous professional cams (XF300 etc) usually come by a couple of years later than the competition. This has actually worked very well for them as being the last guy on the block, they usually had some improvements that the competition didn't have (50mbps mpeg2 for example for the xf100-300) Not true, at least for photography. Canon EOS 300D: first consumer dslr Canon EOS 5D: first fullframe consumer dslr Canon EOS 5D Mark II: first fullframe dslr with film function Up till the 5D II and 550D, Canon was always pretty innovative and providing a lot of bang for your bucks. jgharding 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlasman Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 They lost me at hello. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgharding Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 They just seemed to stop at 550D/5D MKii and throw out innovation for profit squeezing. It's a shame, cos it will actually harm the brand in the long run. The images are always good, but the attitude to the market now is pretty horrid. Instead of capitalising on a reputation of changing the game by upholding that reputation, they used that reputation to squeeze as much profit as possible from as little expenditure. It's just a bit dull and sad. Year after year of the same products, pointless disabling of features . It means my 550D with Mosaic Filter and MAgic Lantern makes a more usable image than a stock 6D. There are plenty who believe the 5D MKiii is a worse stills camera in pure image terms than the MKii. The video is pretty similar, just alias free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bioskop.Inc Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 You could pick up a 5D2 + Mosaic Filter for less than the 5D3 - you get better stills & pretty much the same video. Got to remember that Canon cameras are stills first & video second - so all new cameras are aimed at the stills market & not video! So its business as usual in the capitalist market place! 7D2 & 70D will be just as disappointing - a leopard just won't change its spots! jgharding 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TC Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 I agree with the DSLRs not being up to par, but regarding the November announcements, at the time everyone dismissed Canon's C300, and it turned out to be a huge success, way more than the Scarlet. The C300 is the most rented camera at the moment. It is probably the most rented camera because very few people want to buy one. A lot of people, however, wanted (and still want) to buy a Scarlet as an investment in a modular, upgradeable and future-proof system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgharding Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 C300 is rented a lot at this company because it provides a great, forgiving image, ease of use, EF lenses, all the cameramen know it (I learned it in an afternoon, it's easy), it's light, portable and scalable, records to CF, the workflow is fast in Premiere and so on. No downsides to hire! It is wildly overpriced to buy, but hire on budget is very cheap, comparatively, when you're talking about a day or two of shooting on a five-figure budget, which is not uncommon in corporate land. It really does kick the Canon DSLRs into touch, though it can look quite electronic and dead with the wrong glass (IE Canon glass ;)) IMO. But the buy price... not worth it. The C100 looks nice too, shame about AVCHD though, and the ridiculous and quite frankly insulting removal of 720/50p from a 5000 pound moving image camera. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted March 22, 2013 Author Administrators Share Posted March 22, 2013 No, innovation doesn't make money. Implying their profit has gone down due to lack of innovation as a main factor is ridiculous. That's a crazy thing to say, nonsense. Without innovation you have no product. Canon have the same products they had 4 years ago and it is only through a lack of competition, good marketing and people being locked into Canon lenses that they are still market leaders with those same products. It is innovation that has lead to the smart phone market taking over from the compact camera market in terms of point & shoot photography. How often do you see Ixus snaps on Facebook these days? I also expect Apple made a bit of money from innovating with the iPhone!! So yeah - innovation doesn't make money right? Christ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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