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Ed_David

Tons of problems with new Macbook Pro

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+Jurij Can't really agree with that, even if I'm the last person to get a MacOS/iOS product. They lure you into the ecosystem... with all of your devices, and once you are, it's probably not that easy to switch back to something else because of the integration with all of your other products and the user experience in general. Agreed, most Macbook users just use it as a status symbol whilst sipping away at their triple grande latte macchiato with extra whipped cream and sprinkles over at Starbucks, but to those who really need the performance, they're just screwed? Have to carry around a trashcan? There's a lot of creative/productive people using Macs and apparently all these Apple-bees have money to spend... so why not give them something?

7 hours ago, Don Kotlos said:

Isn't it funny how a top spec'ed Razer blade pro that costs $4499 and has a 17.3" screen, mechanical keyboard, 32GB ram, RAID 0, all the ports that you will ever need, the best desktop graphics card out there (that costs $600 just by itself), in a relatively thin package, appears much more overpriced than a top spec'ed MacBook "Pro" that costs just $200 less :confused:.

Anyways, the XPS 15 9560 with the 1050GTX that comes out in January will be yet another very attractive mobile solution. I was very happy with mine. 

Well, for starters, I don't particularly think it's overpriced, but it's still a great sum of money to spend on a laptop. Just, I'm used to spending around 1299-1499, so 4999 is a step up that one might call a little crazy indeed. Though I like crazy. Not sure if there was such a crazy factory (non-custom) slim laptop/price ever before. I don't care much for the Mac ecosystem, so I love that I have all these options. Love my old ASUS N56VZ, it's superquiet, performs ok, lovely screen, audio by Bang & Olufsen is the best thing ever, the newer MSI Prestige PE60 works well, but overall isn't quite as nice as the ASUS. Another thing not-Apple... smartphones. The ZTE Nubia Z9 was a thing of the future when it got released, that's how I managed to rock it for so long. Now it's time for change and I'm thinking maybe the Huawei Mate 9 Pro with Leica dualcam set-up might be it. This is the level of choice that's just not availlable at Apple. But... people don't always like choice, they just want something that is easy and works.

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

Also, I don't see anybody crying. I see thousands of creative professionals - graphic designers, photo editors and film editors - who have been faithful to Apple for years, who realize that Tim Cook does not understand or care about what we want. He believes we should be able to work on an iPad Pro. 

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1 hour ago, Xavier Plágaro Mussard said:

Apple hates pro users.

Evidently.

And pro users hate Apple.

That statement works with a very specific definition of who and how a pro is. 

Apple loves artists. Artists love Apple. Not a truism, a prejudice. But evident. Most would agree.

It's interesting to see how people define themselves through the brand (or the rejection of a brand) as this or that. Before FCP X came out, thousands of FCP 7 users waited impatiently for an FCP 8. The wishlist: 64bit support, native editing of highly compressed video, not much change to the beloved old GUI. Perfective maintenance like Adobe exercised it for decades. Apple must have despised these conservative pros. I imagine them sitting in Cupertino and watching the wave of shame and disgust over "iMovie Pro" with deep satisfaction. Randy? Yeah, Steve? High five, we shat them all right in the face!

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And since Cinegain brings up cost, I'm at work on yet another off-putting post ? that examines the vetting process that every new piece of photographic equipment goes through in most Internet forums, from initial announcement to the first beta testers, speculation about features, reaction to the first reviews, and the relationship between economics (purchasing power) and user opinions about gear. I'm finding recently that gear costing in the range of $700 USD gets many more favorable posts than gear in $2,000+ territory. Many users are interested in 'bang for the buck', not just the very best money can buy. I often read statements like 'it is 90% as good as this... [insert name of product], but in my opinion, it is that 10% that makes the difference between cameras and lenses that just meet expectations and those that blow your mind.

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3 hours ago, jonpais said:

Also, I don't see anybody crying. I see thousands of creative professionals - graphic designers, photo editors and film editors - who have been faithful to Apple for years, who realize that Tim Cook does not understand or care about what we want. He believes we should be able to work on an iPad Pro. 

Well, how many of them will abandon Apple? 0.1%, if that. On the other side of the spectrum, the silly innovations will maybe bring in a slew of yet non-converted latte-sippers.

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4 hours ago, Cinegain said:

Well, for starters, I don't particularly think it's overpriced, but it's still a great sum of money to spend on a laptop. Just, I'm used to spending around 1299-1499, so 4999 is a step up that one might call a little crazy indeed. 

My comment wasn't directed to you but the general consensus that an Apple computer is worth the premium price even with lousy specs.

I also think these are crazy prices anyways.

4 hours ago, Cinegain said:

But... people don't always like choice, they just want something that is easy and works.

Another funny point is that I have experienced far more crashes, hangs, bugs and things not working with the latest Mac laptops than I have with any other windows laptop. Keys get stuck on a weekly basis on my mb 12 ffs.  Sure macos is polished and FCPX is optimized but right now it is just not reliable. 

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Funny maybe, but funnier still when it come time to sell it used... it's then you understand that resales is far worst on the PC end. Additionally, for all its lofty specs, when compared head to head against the MacBook Pro running highly optimized FCPX vs the far greater spec'd Windows Laptop, you then understand that you are not just paying for hardware alone when purchasing the MacBook Pro. You are also paying for software that is designed to work efficiently with the hardware that it has. You also understand that if your laptop cannot run a particular Mac OS app, that there are millions of other users in the same boat. Therefore resources will be tasked with fixing the issue. And lets not forget customer service, and the peace of mind that comes with the knowledge that you will be able to take your laptop to the local Apple store should a problem arise. This is important not only to inexperienced users... but also to professionals. I myself hold more than twenty four technical certifications... and work as a software engineer. But still appreciate good customer service. 

I have used both systems extensively. Adobe Creative Suite CC, Da Vinci Resolve, and FCPX. When I want to put out a project quickly. And do not need a ton of special effects... I just do it in FCP. Works for 95% of what I do, and I would hazard a guess that the same holds true for most of the folks out there that are editing video. Granted, if you are working in a pro setting with a multi-million dollar budget, then you are not representative of "most" users. For the rest of us, the MacBook Pro is more than sufficient to get the job done. Yes we could argue that it should have had 32GB of ram... nevertheless, if seems to work fine with only 16GB, so is there really a problem? And certainly, we all miss the SD card slot. But there are easy dongle free work-arounds... like plugging your camera into the USB port. 

When thinking about the MacBook you need to consider the overall package. Not just hardware. There have been reports of issues, but I remain confident that those issues will be addressed. I would not feel so confident with a Razor or Dell product. Which is why I returned my Dell workstation shortly after dropping $4500 on it. And the idea of handing over that kind of money to Razor... well let just say I do not have that sort of confidence in them... but YMMV.

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The frustration comes from the fact that Apple's MacOS products are declining like they did back in the early 1990s (before Steve Jobs came back), but there's no alternative that doesn't have its own set of drawbacks.

Ten years ago - in the times of modular workstation Mac Pros, laptops that were years ahead of the competition and FCP7 -, buying a Mac was just a no-brainer.

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DBounce I see your points and I agree with many of them. That's why I got the new mac. But at the end of the day it did not do the work so it went back. 

46 minutes ago, DBounce said:

Funny maybe, but funnier still when it come time to sell it used... it's then you understand that resales is far worst on the PC end.

Resale value is not something that most professionals look when they are buying equipment. 

46 minutes ago, DBounce said:

Additionally, for all its lofty specs, when compared head to head against the MacBook Pro running highly optimized FCPX vs the far greater spec'd Windows Laptop, you then understand that you are not just paying for hardware alone when purchasing the MacBook Pro.

Yes, FCPX performance is great. But if you try comparing the performance with another program like davinci resolve you are in for a unpleasant surprize. And no, FCPX is not a replacement for everything like Adobe after effects or Davinci resolve for example.  

46 minutes ago, DBounce said:

And lets not forget customer service, and the peace of mind that comes with the knowledge that you will be able to take your laptop to the local Apple store should a problem arise. This is important not only to inexperienced users... but also to professionals. I myself hold more than twenty four technical certifications... and work as a software engineer. But still appreciate good customer service. 

Well other companies have this support and even better. In my personal experience with Lenovo Thinkpads and Dells they came in my office and fixed it next day. So I didn't even have to leave my work to visit a "genius".

46 minutes ago, DBounce said:

I have used both systems extensively. Adobe Creative Suite CC, Da Vinci Resolve, and FCPX. When I want to put out a project quickly. And do not need a ton of special effects... I just do it in FCP. Works for 95% of what I do, and I would hazard a guess that the same holds true for most of the folks out there that are editing video. 

I totally see your FCPX point and I agree, that's why I got one. But professionals that work with video often need more that what FCPX can provide, and for those people the optimizations in FCPX do not make a difference. It's not random that every reviewer out there recommends a windows computer if you don't use FCPX. 

46 minutes ago, DBounce said:

When thinking about the MacBook you need to consider the overall package. Not just hardware. There have been reports of issues, but I remain confident that those issues will be addressed. I would not feel so confident with a Razor or Dell product.

It certainly was the case before, but I have honestly not seen this support on the last few iterations. Let me give you few examples:

1. I bought the 2015 mcbook 12", and after few days few keys stopped working. Looking around it was a very common thing for the newly released butterfly mechanism. Now even though I believe this should have been sorted out before the laptop gets released, I said ok it's first iteration an error in design that cannot really be fixed is expected so I bought the 2016 version hoping it did. Nope. Same thing. And it's not just me, I have plenty of people around me with the same problem. 

2. For the sake of thinness or whatever reason they decreased the battery capacity on the new macs by 30%. Of course that gave worse battery performance than previous models and far below the 10 hours claimed even with all the macos optimization. People complain and what does apple do? They just remove the remaining estimate, without doing anything to improve the battery performance. 

3. Many people had graphics problems, and hanging systems and apple released an update to address these issues. But it did not. At least in my case the computer kept crashing. 

There is no fight between Mac or PC. All companies and laptops have their strengths and weaknesses. But I do sincerely hope that Apple gets their act together and all these problems are fixed because many people like yourself that depend on FCPX on mobile computers don't really have a choice. And for those people my suggestion is to wait an iteration until all these are sorted out. 

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I don't understand where Apple is heading with their hardware, but god I love their OS. I don't have time to mess with device drivers and constantly changing operating system functionality. I actually found it easier to build a hackintosh computer than a PC, which is ironic. I used to think it would be fantastic to replace my desktop with a laptop, but being chained to a power outlet always defeated the desired experience. I keep my media separate from my computers, and use a desktop and a laptop for their intended use cases. I'm not a professional photographer or videographer, but value my time all the same. Hopefully there will never be a 100% clear cut choice between PC and Mac, since competition is what drives innovation. I'm fortunate enough to live near a Microsoft store and an Apple store, so within the span of an hour my wife was able to test most of her options from a usability standpoint when deciding on a new device for work. She ended up going with an iPad Pro, which was funny since one of her most used applications is Microsoft Word. I thought the surface studio looked amazing in the promotional videos, but found it disappointing in person. 

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Guys I think my macbook could be on or nearing its last legs. It is a 2012 MBPR with the nvidia 650 and i7 as well as 8 gigs of ram and a 250gb ssd with a 1tb usb 3.0 drive. I leave the nvidia card on all the time per Adobe support's request as I was having trouble in premiere with it switching in between the two. Lately it has been glitching just while browsing the web and I'm hoping the graphics card isn't failing. I'm gonna take it to a local repair shop in town that specializes in macs and have them run some diagnostics ( the shop has excellent reviews in my area) but if worse comes to worse and I eventually need a new laptop, I'm torn which route to go. I would have to buy it on a card but I don't want to spend more than $1500 really I'd like to spend less. I'd like to get an i7, at least retina quality screen, ssd drive, 16gb ram and a good video card for editing. I've come to love my macbook and the apple ecosystem but it seems you get more tech for the money on Windows and I'm fairly good with computers. Also I'm running Premiere Pro not FCPX. Am I unrealistic in my price?

 

EDIT-- I just realized I could run apple diagnostics and did so and said nothing wrong.. Also maybe it just needs a good internal clean? I must say since I got this computer ( it was a new refurb from apple) it runs very hot whereas my brothers macbook air doesn't run anywhere near as hot. Granted I do photo/graphic design/video editing on this but even while watching youtube videos it gets VERY hot. 

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1 hour ago, Turboguard said:

I still edit all my work on my mid2012 retina MBP. e.g. first generation and I have zero problems. So reading through here I'm kinda laughing at what you people are considering problems. I can tell I'm gonna love working on my new late 2016 MBP!

Should have my custom spec'd MBP on Friday. Since I no longer have a MacBook I'll be happy to get one back as editing on Windows is really sloooowww. 

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Pardon my late night rant from yesterday. I had been dealing with Adobe Support for 2 hours over a simple issue in Photoshop that got sorted out. Turned out I just needed to rename preferences and upgrade to new version. Things run mostly smoothly here but even just editing 1080p video in Premiere Pro and doing very light color grading can sometimes make my computer sluggish. Really just switching to Lumetri panel bogs things down a bit regardless of resolution.

I know it seems from what I've read FCPX and the new macbooks edit faster and while I wouldn't say I'm dependent on any particular software..My experiences with Adobe have been good for the past 3 years and I don't want to switch at the moment. I can see in the next 1-2 years I will be needing to either get a new laptop though. I hope it will be a mac as I LOVE mac os but it seems the PC realm definitely offers the most value if you are only looking at specs and not the whole ownership environment. This new macbook pro has most of the features I'd want in a replacement but isn't the graphics card a little weak? Also again its over $2k.

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1 hour ago, Dustin said:

but isn't the graphics card a little weak?

Again, here's my set up that I edit hour long 4K time lines with. Yes I do have my bus set to 1/4 and if working with lots of effects maybe even 1/8 resolution (e.g. not even proxy!). I have zero crashes or hick ups. Don't understand how the graphics cards 4 years later could be worse than the (perfectly fine) ones I'm working with at the moment...

Screen Shot 2016-12-28 at 2.38.03 PM.png

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16 minutes ago, Turboguard said:

Again, here's my set up that I edit hour long 4K time lines with. Yes I do have my bus set to 1/4 and if working with lots of effects maybe even 1/8 resolution (e.g. not even proxy!). I have zero crashes or hick ups. Don't understand how the graphics cards 4 years later could be worse than the (perfectly fine) ones I'm working with at the moment...

Screen Shot 2016-12-28 at 2.38.03 PM.png

What kind of footage specifically are you working with? H264? ProRes? Raw? Also since yours is from the same year, does yours run very hot when editing video/photos? Or even watching YouTube videos? 

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44 minutes ago, Dustin said:

What kind of footage specifically are you working with? H264? ProRes? Raw? Also since yours is from the same year, does yours run very hot when editing video/photos? Or even watching YouTube videos? 

Right now I'm editing two (7min TRT) corporate videos shot with Ursa mini 4K Prores 422 HQ. And also a wedding video shot with bmpcc raw. Only time computer does runs hot is when I encode something. 

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15 minutes ago, Turboguard said:

Right now I'm editing two (7min TRT) corporate videos shot with Ursa mini 4K Prores 422 HQ. And also a wedding video shot with bmpcc raw. Only time computer does runs hot is when I encode something. 

Wow. Well apparently Apple says my model is one made from 2011-2015 that may have issues with graphics card. The replacement is free but mine is out of warranty and it says its not qualified for any repair. Yet this ends in 2016. Link here. I run my footage from a usb 3.0 g tech drive. 1tb 7200rpm. My laptop runs hot all the time. Maybe I have a dud but I'm taking it to a shop to get looked at today. (They specialize in mac). Surely with the difference in my model and yours being 8gb that alone isn't responsible for how much better yours is running in Premiere Pro!

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Update. I've basically been told to either take it to apple or buy another one since that video and over heating issue is common with the mid2012 retina. Hopefully it will keep humming on another year or so as I just don't have time to take it to apple as I use this for my 9-5 as well as side work. Like I said it's working but it's fate is apparently sealed 

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Like in any Mac vs PC debate, people mixes things. I paid FCP X 180€ when it got out, several years ago. I edit 4K h264 with FCP X in my 2013 MacBook Pro and I find it a very pleasing system to work with. And yes, it gets warm. Macs are normally well made (I didn't have any problem with keys). And I don't have any problem paying a premium price for these vantages. I can use any Macbook to be in a Starbucks. 

My complain is the premium has been increasing year after year. First it was a 50%. Then Macs costed double. With the new Macbook Pro with options, I feel that you can get the same power at 1/3 the price. Not only, since it wasn't designed for power, it's not even powerful. Apple now offers some power only on 4000€ computers. I think it's a shame. Even a nice Mini Mac with i7 and some GPU power at 1500€ could close the gap.

 

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