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Germy1979

GH5 10-bit 4:2:2 internal?

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10 hours ago, Jimmy said:

Can't believe we might be on the verge of a tiny camera that can shoot 4k/60p 10 bit 4:4:2 log ... possibly with ibis. 

If they get it right, this is the ultimate indie shooter.... a true game changer.

I'll grab two of these and not even look at new cameras for a good long time.

The gh4 could already do 10bit at 4:2:2 from hdmi, with no big gains over internal 8bit, as several reports stated.

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On September 2, 2016 at 7:08 AM, Oliver Daniel said:

Whilst the rumoured and specs are looking tasty, it will all come down to one thing: the image.

I was a GH3 owner due to the nice 1080p and 60fps that barely any other small camera had at the time.  However I didn't upgrade to the GH4 because I found the image to be very very very similar to the GH3. Of course, in 4k it looked way more detailed - but  it wasn't a huge leap in the overall image. The lowlight on the GH4 was actually worse. 

Also I feel 10-bit is way better implemented in some cameras than others. For example, the 10-bit in FS7 is significantly better than the FS5's 10-bit. Better codec and more data. 

For those who have the GH4 and an external recorder, have you found the 10-bit to be a big step up? Does V-log grade nicely from the external recording? If the implementation of 10-bit in the GH5 falls back on the codec and bitrate, it becomes a far less exciting camera. So it's worth knowing how the GH4 performs with it's 10-bit signal to ProRes recording. 

Very true, I didn't see any difference shooting 10bit on the GH4...but then again I never got to shoot VLOG which probably grades better in 10bit color. If the gh5 looks anything like the gx80 and has ibis then its worth a buy in my book. Cant say I had much complaints about the gh3 & 4 other than the noise

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AFAIK 10-bit is more about flexibility for grading/fixing mistakes than the image quality straight out of the camera. If you shoot WYSIWYG style then it probably won't make much difference for you. At least in normal gammas. V-log needs 10-bit because it's already using less of the curve, so 10-bit gives more values and avoids banding.

On 9/1/2016 at 11:14 AM, Ben Corwin said:

 

Hey Al,

I'm also interested about this "dual SD card" implementation. Maybe it will be like the Odyssey 7Q where it alternates between two SSD's for super high data/frame rates. You would basically import the clips directly off of the camera, which would reassemble the clips into a singular .mov file. Just a thought. 

 

OH HAI BEN

Yea, that would be cool. Unfortunately I kinda feel like we won't ever see super high datarates in a GH cam, though. Even the 400mbit I mentioned might be more than they're willing to give us.

Who knows though? If the video division at Panasonic has no plans for anything below the Varicam LT, maybe the photo division will be allowed to run wild with the GH5 or GH6. Reports were always that the GH4 sold way beyond their expectations, so I would think that would give them some leeway with the bossmen.

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14 hours ago, Marco Tecno said:

 

14 hours ago, Marco Tecno said:

The gh4 could already do 10bit at 4:2:2 from hdmi, with no big gains over internal 8bit, as several reports stated.

Hence why I said "if they get it right"

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C'mon, it's just a fun version of all those beta tester videos. But not that entertaining anyway :grin:.

I gotta say that dimmer demonstration is pretty awesome. It will be useful as the dual raw in the MKIV...

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They need to throw everything they can in the GH5- make it as jaw dropping as possible. Most of the profits seem to be at the high end. For companies to survive, I think they need to offer something that appeals to those who are willing to spend the big bucks.

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On September 2, 2016 at 1:30 AM, SullyCortez said:

 

Yea no, lol. Current MFT and APS-C sensor are just about indistiguinshable. 1" sensors are about as good as two year old APS-C chips. And fullframe just barely surpasses current APS-C. Barely. Check out Aron J Anderson on YouTube and look at the results he gets with a MFT sensor vs APSC. I'm just realllllllllyyyyy hoping they put IBIS into the GH5

You're blind if m43/aps-c are almost equal. It's improving over previous generations, but so are larger sensors. There will always be a DR gap. Same with FF vs aps-c.

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison/fullscreen?attr144_0=panasonic_dmcgx85&attr144_1=sony_a6300&attr144_2=nikon_d7200&attr144_3=sony_dscrx100m4&attr146_0=200_4&attr146_1=100_4&attr146_2=100_4&attr146_3=125_5&attr177_0=off&attr177_1=off&attr177_2=off&attr177_3=off&normalization=compare&widget=351&x=0.13161460498548422&y=0.9816256977809582

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1 hour ago, The Chris said:

Actually at 12.7 or 12.8 the GH4 is better than the 5D Mark iii in terms of Dynamic Range (according to DXO Mark). And many APS-C Cameras.

Maybe you only took the Nikons into consideration. 

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1 hour ago, The Chris said:

Yes he is blind. 

Best m43 is far from best apsc which is far from best FF in term of high Iso performance and dynamic range 

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M43 needs something like that organic sensor that was mentioned years ago, something that will provide a dramatic improvement in dynamic range and iso. Not to say today's m43 sensors aren't decent, but when compared to the latest larger sensors, they're certainly lacking. Still, cameras are more than just a sensor and m43 is capable of stunning results.

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On 9/3/2016 at 6:44 PM, Marco Tecno said:

The gh4 could already do 10bit at 4:2:2 from hdmi, with no big gains over internal 8bit, as several reports stated.

There's a huge difference in grading. Esp recovering highlights. The reports that stated otherwise are youtube bloggers who don't know what they are talking about.

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1 hour ago, TwoScoops said:

There's a huge difference in grading. Esp recovering highlights. The reports that stated otherwise are youtube bloggers who don't know what they are talking about.

I have always respected what the Northrup's do and say because the  actually do tests and show their results.

I am not saying that I don't want 10 bit 4:2:2 I think we need it but mostly because I see it as a steping stone to RAW witch IMO is the ultimate end goal never mind resolution or high frame rates.

 

 

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1 hour ago, MountneerMan said:

I have always respected what the Northrup's do and say because the  actually do tests and show their results.

I am not saying that I don't want 10 bit 4:2:2 I think we need it but mostly because I see it as a steping stone to RAW witch IMO is the ultimate end goal never mind resolution or high frame rates.

 

 

It`s not only the 10 bit 4:2:2, it is also the sensor, GH5 should have at least a sensor so good like in the GX80, which is a lot more cinematic than the sensor in the GH4, with better low lights and cleaner,  so the step from the GH4 to GH5 could be huge. If not, hey Canon! here I go again!!!

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7 hours ago, sanveer said:

Actually at 12.7 or 12.8 the GH4 is better than the 5D Mark iii in terms of Dynamic Range (according to DXO Mark). And many APS-C Cameras.

Maybe you only took the Nikons into consideration. 

I picked top end m43/aps-c (Sony, Nikon) and just for shits I threw in the RX100. Guess which one the m43 is closest to? Unless your vision sucks too, it's the 1" sensor, not aps-c. If you use the d810 or the a7r/II the difference is wider. Picking an old Canon is a waste of time. But my point is easily made, the difference is easy to see, not "almost indistinguishable" as the poster spewing bullshit hyperbole said. 

But to use your example, which camera is better at high ISO? Hint, it's not the GH4. So your point is bunk as well. 

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According to DXO, the DR on the GH4 is just over 12 @iso 200, 7,66 @6400. On the GX80: very nearly the same. On the D500 it's 12,5 @200 - 8,[email protected] - 7,[email protected] (+1 stop). The A7sII gives: 12,[email protected] - 10,[email protected] - 7,[email protected] (+3 stops)

The rumour is +1 stop low light, but one can see that as merely offering a higher iso selection option, just applying gain and reducing DR, and not improving the noise. From the past, I expect no miracles in iso and DR, but just a very little improvement.

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6 hours ago, TwoScoops said:

There's a huge difference in grading. Esp recovering highlights. The reports that stated otherwise are youtube bloggers who don't know what they are talking about.

Also, things like white balance correction will be much better.  When trying to use a white balance eye dropper on 8-bit, it will almost always clip one of the color channels in some areas.  When it clips, the color changes into a different hue in some areas, and you lose detail as well.

And along the lines of that, any grading tools that shifts the color channel values, rather than apply color) are very limited in their range and function.

Of course we are only talking about 10-bit.  We won't get the range of grading a RAW file from a photo camera, but 8-bit to 10-bit is still a huge improvement.

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Yeah If only we can get the Varicam image out of the GH line. Or RAW or any decent codec. As these dslr's codecs suck. I know I can only speak for narrative filmmakers out there. And 80% of the dslr users are probably doing more event, business, wedding, travel, sport videos and could care less. 

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