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Andrew Reid

1.74x - A Crop Odyssey - Canon 5D Mark IV officially announced

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7 minutes ago, bertzie said:

Your stills camera isn't a great video camera, my screwdriver makes a shitty hammer. We both got problems.

 

Does Canon have to remove video function all together before people get the friggen point?

This.

"We both got problems." LMAO!!!

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs
5 hours ago, theSUBVERSIVE said:

It's not so much about having modest or high expectations, I'm just being realistic about Panasonic and how they are.

What I expect is the minimum Panasonic should do, the second part is what they should do if they actually want to step up their game against Sony. The Wishlist is just something they could do and people would appreciate but I just doubt Panasonic would be bold enough to pull that off, unfortunately.

I'm hoping the delay in announcing a replacement, if that rumor is true, is because they're adding some features that will turn heads and take back a bit of the thunder Sony seems to have stolen. 

3 hours ago, Jn- said:

I've taken the liberty of using this extract from an article in Photography Life, he explains it a lot better than I could ...

I simply replaced sensor dimensions, which would be in millimetres i.e. 24x36 for FF with 4480x6720 and xx x yy for 2160 x 4096.

https://photographylife.com/what-is-crop-factor
"How Crop Factor is Calculated
The math to derive the crop factor is quite simple. Knowing the physical size of the sensor, you first calculate the diagonal using Pythagorean Theorem (a² + b² = c²), then divide the number by the diagonal of the crop sensor."

I personally don't have any problem if it is 1.64, all the better, since i've already ordered it, but using the diagonals of the FF sensor and the diagonal of the 4K crop it's 1.74.

News Shooter says the crop is 1.74 in the title of their article.

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5 minutes ago, Flynn said:

I'm hoping the delay in announcing a replacement, if that rumor is true, is because they're adding some features that will turn heads and take back a bit of the thunder Sony seems to have stolen. 

News Shooter says the crop is 1.74 in the title of their article.

 

DPreview has camera in hand and says its 1.64  https://t.co/yt46N2MI91

1 hour ago, bertzie said:

Your stills camera isn't a great video camera, my screwdriver makes a shitty hammer. We both got problems.

 

Does Canon have to remove video function all together before people get the friggen point?

 

Great is a very subjective word... different strokes for different folks.. for me its perfect :)

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1 hour ago, myJTP said:

DPreview has camera in hand and says its 1.64  https://t.co/yt46N2MI91

Great is a very subjective word... different strokes for different folks.. for me its perfect :)

News Shooter had the camera in hand and says it's 1.74. Maybe they're wrong in this instance, but I trust them far more than DP Review when it comes to video. 

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Wow, went to bed and the next morning the thread got like doubled in size, how can that be? Ahh, yet another crop factor / calc-to-death discussion. 

23 minutes ago, darekbo said:

Hi there is petition to Canon for full frame recording of 4k !!!!

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/full-frame-recording-of-4k-in-canon-5d-mk4

Please do yourself a favor and dont start any stupid petition that will never become true. Did you read this topic here?

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I predict that in the next couple of years FF / DLSR will stop being perceived as required for pro photographers (it's already less and less the case). And that, with declining budgets for commissions vs the speed at which the equipment becomes obsolete, it's going to be increasingly absurd for most pros to invest heavily in gear. The only investment that makes sense is intellectual. So with specs like this Olympus and Panasonic really do have a card to play. The OMD EM1 ii and the GH5 could be massive hits. You really don't need 30 or 45 or 50 mpx. 

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17 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Who is more stupid?

Lots of products continue to sell today because they are living on their past reputations. All the while they have been surpassed or others are beginning to provide what the market keeps demanding for those who know. But as in all fields of knowledge and discipline those "in the know" are few, those unable to look beyond the label are many, and the many keep those living off their past reputations in business for quite a while. 

What kills me is how reactionary and disappointing something like the long-awaited 5D Mk IV is, and yet Canon will turn around and do something unexpected like the XC10--which, for what it is, is a very innovative camera.

 

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2 hours ago, darekbo said:

Please do yourself a favor and do not post stupid post. There is always hope for change.

Dont take it personal, but if one follows Canons actions over the past couple of years it becomes evident, that such a petition is not more than a waste of time.

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"Full frame" is a photographic standard so it measures 3:2 in terms of aspect ratio.

So surely it is more correct to say "4K on the 5D Mark IV is a 1.74x crop of full frame"

"Full frame" is not a 16:9 box.

OK we can measure only horizontally and that is 1.64x crop

But what about UHD 3840px? That would change the crop again and most people deliver in 16:9

So effectively the 5D Mark IV crop factor is more often than not 1.74x.

Anyway no matter what I think.... I hope we can we get a clearer consensus on how the crop factor calculations break down -

Reading the thread so far and various contributor math -

DCI 4K measured diagonally from the 3:2 photographic area it is 1.74x crop
DCI 4K measured diagonally from the 16:9 video area of full frame is 1.64x crop
DCI 4K (4096 pixels wide) is a horizontal crop factor of 1.64x

So what is the UHD 4K crop if your delivery needs to be in the usual aspect ratio and not the 17:9 of DCI 4K?
Back around 1.74x measured horizontally?

And what is the industry standard way of measuring video crop factors - the ones stated by manufacturers themselves - is it horizontally or diagonally? And do they take into account the full sensor 3:2 or 4:3 aspect ratio if measuring diagonally or just the 16:9 portion?

And as for the lenses -

EF-S mount lenses WILL NOT work on the 5D Mark IV as the rear glass intrudes too far into the mount... Although I hear on some lenses like the 10-22mm you can pop off the plastic shield at the back and it might work - no mirror hit?

And so Tokina 11-16mm F2.8 is best wide for 4K and you would need to swap lenses when you go back into FF stills mode

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10 hours ago, Tiago Rosa-Rosso said:

Thanks Andrew and Luke and the rest for the insights on the crop.

Anyone know good aps-c ef lenses besides sigma 18 to 35 and 50 to 100? And any knows if this lenses will work with DPAF?

Perhaps also consider the Canon FF 16-35mm f4.0?

It got good reviews, see http://www.photozone.de/canon_eos_ff/877-canon_1635_4is?start=1

Its not as heavy as the Sigma, not as fast, has IS, its FF, a bit more expensive than the sigma.

 

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It is what it is, that seems to be Canon approach, they are not much listening.

Looking the canon lineup it makes much sense, looking the competition, not sure but it still has potential to be a pretty good camera. Perfect for film making, not, especially not when looking what else is available, but maybe for some situations when weather sealing is needed, when 4k is not needed, when wide angle is not needed.

1.74x crop, if it provides better rolling shutter performance etc. I rather take it than FF.

The video codec is disappointing, Mini HDMI is disappointing, no 4k over HDMI is disappointing.... but it is what it is.

 

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Huuow said:

the timing seems rigged ^^

http://www.43rumors.com/ft4-first-panasonic-gh5-spec-4k-422-10-bits-internal-recording/

1) The camera has no crop for 4K
2) 4:2:2 10 bits internal recording!!!!

Sign me up

If they can get the 10bit 4:2:2 working nicely with P-Log, it will be the game changer we have all craved.

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