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Oliver Daniel

DJI X5R (4K RAW) + Osmo + Inspire 1... anybody else with the same idea?

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6 hours ago, Neumann Films said:

I didn't have issues like that. Not saying it was a dud as I had my own headaches but that sounds...faulty. I could be wrong though. Maybe my experience was the exception rather than the rule.

I was a huge fan of the X5R/Inspire 1/Osmo set up. It had quirks but I dealt with them because I loved the image quality, now with the price being much lower, I think it's a hidden gem. No ProRes is rough as DNG slows everything down. There are ways around that though, you can record proxies directly to the Micro SD card and then utilize Premiere's proxy workflow. Personally, I made my cut in Premiere using proxies then Dynamic Linked to AE to use Adobe Camera Raw...which is STILL the best way to process DNG files (in my moderately humble opinion)

I haven't used Cinelight, the PC solution is bare bones but stable and straight forward. Cinelight...I can't speak for. I have heard mixed things as well.

I just cut this together, it's a reel of Osmo and Inspire stuff all on the X5R, should show the versatility. Tripod, pan/tilt (via app), car mount, Osmo, and Inspire 1: 

 

At one point we were working on a light weight (*feather weight) jib made out of carbon fiber pieces that you could backpack anywhere and build up to over 40 feet. The Osmo was so light that it just barely worked. The idea was...easy epicness in national parks. Sadly it never fully came together but there is one shot in the video using the set up (shot at 1:20).

Keep in mind, it's a little like dealing with Magic Lanern on the 5D3 or something. My tolerance for stuff like this might be different than other people's. It's quite a bit of work for less footage...not for doc or any kind of long form content. It's niche, for sure. 

Yes but they use Panasonic sensors and work closely with them, so they might be protecting that relationship.

That has shots to stand the hairs up on the back of my neck. Absolutely bloody wonderful!

Mr @Neumann Films clearly knows how to use a gimbal slowly, cinematically, almost like a slider and crane replacement on some shots, rather than waving it around randomly like a robot wand :)

I think it's easy to miss the point of the OSMO RAW. Yes, sure it has major flaws. But what else, seriously, is this small and easy to grab and go, which shoots 4K RAW with 13 stops dynamic range?

In my article, I think all the criticisms are a reality - but I might be willing to put myself through some pain - with the greater satisfaction that brings in the end, rather than having it all too easy, sometimes limitations can be a creative inspiration. I am not kidding :)

Yes the Ronin S, Crane, etc. can get the same shots, yes a GH5 can get you close to the quality of raw but it's still not RAAAAAW, also the rig has to be set-up each time you get it out of the bag (not that it really fits in a bloody bag to start with - more like a suitcase) and the weight is 3-4x more than the OSMO.

Did you @Neumann Films find a way to access the DNGs directly off the OSMO's SSD rather than bring them through Cinelight? Because even with proxies, after editing you are still going to have to crack open those DNGs eventually and it takes HOURS, doesn't it? What if you need to use the SSD again in a hurry? Did you buy multiple ones? They are quite pricy.

I also love that if you buy the OSMO RAW X5R, you pop it off and there you have your Inspire 1 RAW drone as well. Saves you money if you're planning on getting an Inspire 1 anyway.

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2 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

That has shots to stand the hairs up on the back of my neck. Absolutely bloody wonderful!

Mr @Neumann Films clearly knows how to use a gimbal slowly, cinematically, almost like a slider and crane replacement on some shots, rather than waving it around randomly like a robot wand :)

I think it's easy to miss the point of the OSMO RAW. Yes, sure it has major flaws. But what else, seriously, is this small and easy to grab and go, which shoots 4K RAW with 13 stops dynamic range?

In my article, I think all the criticisms are a reality - but I might be willing to put myself through some pain - with the greater satisfaction that brings in the end, rather than having it all too easy, sometimes limitations can be a creative inspiration. I am not kidding :)

Yes the Ronin S, Crane, etc. can get the same shots, yes a GH5 can get you close to the quality of raw but it's still not RAAAAAW, also the rig has to be set-up each time you get it out of the bag (not that it really fits in a bloody bag to start with - more like a suitcase) and the weight is 3-4x more than the OSMO.

Did you @Neumann Films find a way to access the DNGs directly off the OSMO's SSD rather than bring them through Cinelight? Because even with proxies, after editing you are still going to have to crack open those DNGs eventually and it takes HOURS, doesn't it? What if you need to use the SSD again in a hurry? Did you buy multiple ones? They are quite pricy.

I also love that if you buy the OSMO RAW X5R, you pop it off and there you have your Inspire 1 RAW drone as well. Saves you money if you're planning on getting an Inspire 1 anyway.

Thank you sir!

It's been a while but from what I remember you need to still do something to get the DNG's off of the SSD. It was fairly quick but there's no way around it...it's slow. I compare it to working with the 5D3, it's not going to be an easy workflow but there is something fun and unique if you are OK with slowing your process down.

The fastest route I found was: 

1. Record to both SSD and Micro SD (1080p on Micro)

2. Transfer both to same folder

3. Utilize Premiere Pro Proxies

4. Dynamic Link to AE to color DNG files via Adobe Camera RAW

5. Export to Adobe Media Encoder for upload

Slow, yes...but not much different than my workflow anywhere else. Sometimes I just slap a LUT on in Premiere Pro and export there but it's not very often.

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@Neumann FilmsCinelight is pretty slow then? I am wondering how long it takes to transcode that entire 512GB drive (30 mins of footage) and whether they make any improvements with the latest 2018 versions.

Proxies seem to work well for Premiere.

I'd probably use Resolve to edit the Cinema DNG natively. Works better and better every year as an editor.

What's the low light like - can you get away with ISO 1600 if treated nicely in post?

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16 hours ago, wolf33d said:

LOL. Yes pure garbage like @Neumann Films just showed... For $100 you can for sure get something better and better footage than this! (hint: good luck)

Even though I slated it in my review, I did capture some great footage with it. The 4K RAW can look spectacular. 

Overall though it was too much of a pain. It’s only a device for people with an incredible amount of patience and willingness to put up with inconsistent reliability. 

2 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

@Neumann FilmsCinelight is pretty slow then? I am wondering how long it takes to transcode that entire 512GB drive (30 mins of footage) and whether they make any improvements with the latest 2018 versions.

Proxies seem to work well for Premiere.

I'd probably use Resolve to edit the Cinema DNG natively. Works better and better every year as an editor.

What's the low light like - can you get away with ISO 1600 if treated nicely in post?

Cinelight is trash. 

I suggest using the PC workflow or Cinelight could potentially send you to the Cuckoo’s Nest! 

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That's just a sensor on a gimbal! You need to attach it to the Inspire 2 drone.

So I found the answers to the SSD workflow - 

1. The SSD uses a proprietary DJI file system that cannot be read by a computer like a normal drive. Only the Cinelight app can read the SSD, so there's no avoiding it.

2. In Cinelight you can export to Cinema DNG from the MLV-style RAW format the OSMO RAW records in to the SSD

3. You can also export to ProRes in Cinelight but I believe this isn't hardware accelerated, so much slower than transcoding the DNG in Resolve to ProRes with Blackmagic LOG applied

4. Once you have that ProRes, I would then probably edit in Premiere and apply a LUT

Not exactly a Blackmagic RAW style workflow, that's for sure.

A bit off-putting, but still excited to try one out.

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Short story ... long description ....

 

With the X7 processing is done in the drone ... so until DJI releases a gimbal with the internal processing of the Inspire 2 ... it is useless.

Seems similar to Canon's protection of their cinema line ... unlikely to occur.

Shame is it would be a killer implementation of a gimbal, RAW and a decent sensor.

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14 minutes ago, docmoore said:

Short story ... long description ....

 

With the X7 processing is done in the drone ... so until DJI releases a gimbal with the internal processing of the Inspire 2 ... it is useless.

Seems similar to Canon's protection of their cinema line ... unlikely to occur.

Shame is it would be a killer implementation of a gimbal, RAW and a decent sensor.

I mean, they promised it and still have it listed on their site as "coming soon" to other products on the site. The idea was to come up with an Osmo solution, sadly I bet they have ditched it.

 

 

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Found this about Cinelight: "You can just export them as DNG files and that is how you "copy" the data, for 15 minutes it takes about 30 minutes for me to copy all the footage. Which is reasonable."

https://forum.dji.com/thread-47560-1-1.html

As long as no processing is applied to the DNGs like lens correction, noise reduction, etc. then it is apparently 15 minutes to export 512GB.

Not bad.

Then to transcode in Resolve to ProRes takes a surprisingly short amount of time on a good rig, as Resolve is ultra efficient unlike Cinelight.

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2 hours ago, Neumann Films said:

I mean, they promised it and still have it listed on their site as "coming soon" to other products on the site. The idea was to come up with an Osmo solution, sadly I bet they have ditched it.

 

 

You are correct ... seems like the Ronin S has priority. Not enough margin in the high end to make up for the mass sale of commodities.

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29 minutes ago, docmoore said:

You are correct ... seems like the Ronin S has priority. Not enough margin in the high end to make up for the mass sale of commodities.

It's unfortunate because if they just put all of the pieces together then they would likely get the sales required to make it feasible. With an incomplete eco-system, it's hard to get people to shell out $6-$7k for an aerial only camera. If that camera can move from drone to tripod/gimbal...then it's a totally different discussion.

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Yeah, I would buy an X5S tomorrow if I could use it with some form of an Osmo handle. And I would probably get an Inspire drone by Christmas to fly it.

The X7 is gorgeous and I’d love to have the S35 look but until someone makes adapters for their new mount, I can’t see myself shelling out a grand for a prime lens I can only use with one system.

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I wonder with a small adapter for the Inspire 2 SSD and some processing power, if the Ronin-S handle has the power to use the X5s - similar to the block that was in the X5r. Would be a good move for DJI because existing Inspire 2, Ronin-S, and X5s owners would benefit and they would also sell both more Ronin-S-s (for people who already have Inspire 2s and want the Osmo option) and more Inspire 2s and X5s cameras for people who already have the Ronin-S and want a super small and light gimbal package.

Also the Ronin focus wheel that works pretty great with the GH5 would be huge here, since the X5s autofocus isn't great. 

Seem to make sense to me. Make the Ronin-S handle the high-end Osmo. 

 

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