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Jonesy Jones

Craft Camera is coming!

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1 hour ago, Jonesy Jones said:

Craft, if you are listening, we're on your side, we're rooting for you, but you are going to have to do a LOT better than that. We need to see a prototype. We need footage. And lot's more info. Hopefully your business model didn't require a bunch of deposits, because if so, I don't think we'll ever hear from you again. But please prove me wrong. If this camera could possibly be a reality you'd be onto something. Lead the way. 

Prototypes are expensive ;) It's much cheaper to get things made in bulk than one at a time - who knows, they may even need a minimum order on the sensors! I can't imagine we'll see any footage until they ship... IF they ship..

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs
Quote

4K Video Element, Super 35mm CMOS Sensor with Global Shutter (4096 x 2160, 1920x1080, 1280 x 720). Frame rates  23.98, 24, 25, 29.97, 30, 50, 59.94, 60 

Fast and slow frame rate speeds at intervals up to 120fps (additionally to the 60p max out, but unspecified resolution, most probably 1080p/720p)

And worth to note, the VA only takes 4K over SDI. And yes, it maxes out at 1080p60.

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28 minutes ago, gsenroc said:

Isn't that Craft camera works at max 4k 120fps? VA has only 60fps as far as I know.

I seriously doubt it's going to work at 4K 120fps. The size of the body just makes that nearly impossible. Probably 720 or at very best 1080. Also it's probably a variable frame rate capture where you shoot 120fps and it conforms to 24p or 25p in camera.

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Ambitious, but unless they already have a working beta prototype in final testing right now in order to sort all the image and software bugs, no way it ships this year. Instead of taking deposits to fund development they should have gone Kickstarter, but that would require footage, which means this is probably vaporware at this point.

Getting all the hardware and software to properly integrate is no easy task. Blackmagic actually has experience producing cameras and hardware, and they still can't come close to meeting any date. As we've seen, many features are introduced well after release with FW updates.

The Bolex guys miss their planned ship date by well over a year after their Kickstarter campaign ended IIRC. And the development process was already well underway at that point. The complexities of getting all the finishing touches right and sorting all the bugs really slowed them down. 

I think one of the more established players beats them to market in the next year or so - effectively killing this before it's finished. 

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11 hours ago, aldolega said:

Am I wrong in thinking that the "ND Sled" has to be removed to have no ND? If so, that's ridiculous. The site says two filters, three settings, which would seem that there is no clear/off setting- just filter A, filter B, or A+B: so three settings. Maybe I'm overanalyzing...

Yeah, that concerned me too.. though in a way I like the idea. Having to mess with screws whenever you want to change nds takes out most of the internal nd fun for me. Also, if you just take it out and leave it out, isn't the sensor exposed to dust or flares? So really if you want no nd, you have to take out the nd and screw in a slide with an empty hole in it? Ha. I didn't look too closely in the site to see if that was explained more.

The speed mount design looked kinda cool, but if there are only like 3 options and they're all kinda pricey, it would probably have been better just to have a fixed mft and adapt it yourself.

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5 hours ago, AaronChicago said:

I seriously doubt it's going to work at 4K 120fps. The size of the body just makes that nearly impossible. Probably 720 or at very best 1080. Also it's probably a variable frame rate capture where you shoot 120fps and it conforms to 24p or 25p in camera.

It does 4k @ 60p. It does higher frames rates upto 120p (though NOT at Full Res). 

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1 hour ago, AaronChicago said:

Sounds like it's the same sensor that's in the BMPC. Not sure if BM is withholding 4K/60p or it was a heat issue.

BMPCC records on SD Cards. This on CFast (correct me if I am wrong). That itself is a huge deciding factor.

Plus processing power can make a Huge Difference. The Panasonic GX85 and GX7 have the same sensor, but vastly different processing power, and hence the 4k.  

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2 hours ago, Xavier Plágaro Mussard said:

The Craft Camera is a great promise, let's hope it turns into reality!

Or somewhere between a joke and a scam. Jannard is not the owner, I bet. Just a funny rumor, my guess.

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It's really interesting in theory, and the theoretical price is very low.

I can't say I'm early adopter these days. The last time I did and was and was happy was Canon 550D release, I kept using that for years. Of course, I just bought it in a shop, I didn't have to pay for an idea.

So I shall just wait and see what happens! In the past I had preorders down on various BMD cams and cancelled them, so now I just keep doing what I'm doing until we all know the score.

My respect to those who do take the risks! Your service to your... craft... is appreciated.

It would be a shame, but not unsurprising, if this the world of cameras end up similar to how everything else has gone recently: people using crowd-funding to give ideas a go, often resulting in real losses for funders.

I do like the idea that Jim of Red is behind it, making a spin-off company to target the very lucrative prosumer market. I've a feeling it's not the case though. Red make everything themselves, including sensors, and to be honest I think it would have a very different style to it if it were their spin off. Also, it would have Redcode in it, as that's their trump card. And it's probably be called a Red.

Anyway, will watch with interest!

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Why would they want to compete with themselves, though? That would be the whole reason to start a new thing to begin with, tap into the lower-end market and appeal to the mirrorless shooting crowd and one-man-bands. That's where everyone is still thinking... 'where I do I go from my GH4/A7S/5DmkIII?'. This way their RED aim can still be production team companies, yet get a new stream of revenue from another place. Though, in all fairness, I doubt any of that is the case, because then it would be less 'hey, here's a fun idea' like a crowdfunding campaign and more of a structurized less feel-driven, more fact-driven set-up. Though, it could also be like one of these Hyperloop design teams where Elon Musk had an idea and invited teams to compete with eachother on their own designs/concepts. Jim (RED) could've been like: 'listen, come up with something that allows mirrorless shooters and entry into cinema cameras without it being too much of a set-up in price and still have a little gap towards high-end cinema cameras such as our own... go run with it, do as you like, let me know when it's done'. But yeah, I think it's unlikely.

Good pun though, there, btw. ;)

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stupid question, am going to assume it. Can u pick the 4k ver with m43 mount? probably the lenses can't cover the full super 35mm sensor but i was hopping for a crop or something to push it closer to BMCC 2.5k that has m43. Cheers guys, and sorry for the stupid questions.

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Well, they specify the 4K for use with the EF and PL mount, which is obvious due to sensor size. However, since it's a design based on common parts, modules and configurability, I assume the hot swap mount is the same on both and so are the adapters. So I assume you can use it, but as you say, not all of the glass might cover S35, causing vignetting (although as you say, you can crop from 4K). Which you probably do not care much for as I assume you just want the flexible mount and some of that native glass carried over from shooting M43 that does cover S35 (or not and just crop).

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On 19/4/2016 at 8:24 AM, Jonesy Jones said:

There's a bunch of things to like about this camera concept, but as has been said, it's not a camera, until it's a camera. Ideas are easy. I thought they'd at least show us some footage from prototypes. Remember the digital bolex announcement? They had put enough of a camera together with like a computer chip in a cereal box to shoot a short film and at least give us a taste. But what is this render only nonsense?

Craft, if you are listening, we're on your side, we're rooting for you, but you are going to have to do a LOT better than that. We need to see a prototype. We need footage. And lot's more info. Hopefully your business model didn't require a bunch of deposits, because if so, I don't think we'll ever hear from you again. But please prove me wrong. If this camera could possibly be a reality you'd be onto something. Lead the way. 


OK, here's where we should help these guys ...! :astonished:  NOT by supplying deposits, but by turning to competitors of the dominant
RED, BlackMagic, Canon & Sony !    I don't mean TerraTech (they'll do fine alone), but Panasonic, Samsung, Fuji and so on .
Maybe LG would be the perfect partner with their low prices for many high-quality-devices ?   Or ... Dare I say it ?  ARRI could
sell this camera by a blink of an eye ! ;-)   (We really do need some more, better & happier emoticons !)

I think these companies want a bit/bite of the cake and it would give healthy competition, heghtening the old companies quality
& specs/tricks and lowering their prices too !     Good for us consumers !    So let's address a petition to these newbies (except
ARRI of course) cause they know we're the 25.000 users (?) who'll make the opinions of tomorrow .  Just my 5 cents, folks ! :glasses:

I'lll bet an ice-cream one of the "new" companies will take CraftCamera serious (Just tell them, that the other companies ALSO
got invitations) and if THEY won't maybe INTEL or AMD could step in with processors !  I gave the idea, YOU make a petition !
NB :  This is NOT meant to ridicule the CraftCamera - I actually think a huge company would make this a success for both :glasses:

A-Day-at-the-Races-2.jpg
"Either this CraftCamera is dead or else my watch has stopped ..."

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