1dx mark ii, 4k 60fps?

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

Btw forgot one thing: it's a touchscreen panel as an addition to DPAF control. 

Well, since:

I am expecting that 1:1 readout crop.

Since my source insists on no aliasing/moire, that's probably true. But I hope it's a FF readout in 4K.

[Eric Calabros]

Mother of God.. 2.6MB per frame, internally! 

[JurijTurnsek]

With Sony you have to change the battery every hour or so and now with Canon you'll be changing cards even more frequently (if you can afford it).

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

yup, that 800mbps is INSANELY high. High quality but HIGHER cost. That's 60p. 4K is as 1DC (still pretty dam expensive at 500mbps high-end CF or CFast cards)

[BrorSvensson]

 

 

(personal note: 1DC is 100% outperformed as a camera but only has the added Canon Log and unlimited recordng beyond 29:59min)

 

 

Hopefully this leads to a nice price drop of the 1dc in the used market.

[Oliver Daniel]

I have to say this looks like a very interesting camera indeed, something I've always wanted to see in a Canon DSLR. I love the colour from Canon cameras and I really miss it when dealing with my gigabytes of Sony footage. 

With the additions of 4k 60p and HD 120fps, this is a future-proof camera that has a track record of holding it's value very well with the other models. 

For video shooters, this camera will certainly need an external monitor like the new SmallHD or Pix E5 (I find the Atomos too big). 

Also as a stills cameras, I still prefer my long-gone Canon 60d to what i've shot on any of the Sony A7 cameras. By far. The image just feels a lot, lot better. 

 

Questions that need to be asked? 

1. How do all the 4k frame rates work? Full read out? Skipped? Cropped? 

2. How does the 120fps hold up? Is this also cropped like on the A7S II and C300 II? 

3. Does the camera now have basic video features like peaking, zebra? (Likely not - monitor essential). 

4. How much can we do with the picture profiles? Is it possible to upload C-log into the camera, or use another user-defined log mode? 

5. How much dynamic range is possible in video mode? (determined by picture profiles?).

 

I'd say I'm very interested in this camera, both as a video unit and a stills camera. It seems like the kind of camera you'd love and keep for years. Rugged, durable and beautiful. 

The deal breaker for me is in the picture profiles area. If some kind of dynamic range maximising profile can be implemented and the video modes hold out, I'd be very interested in buying the camera. 

I'll rent it for sure! 

 

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

I have to say this looks like a very interesting camera indeed, something I've always wanted to see in a Canon DSLR. I love the colour from Canon cameras and I really miss it when dealing with my gigabytes of Sony footage. 

With the additions of 4k 60p and HD 120fps, this is a future-proof camera that has a track record of holding it's value very well with the other models. 

For video shooters, this camera will certainly need an external monitor like the new SmallHD or Pix E5 (I find the Atomos too big). 

Also as a stills cameras, I still prefer my long-gone Canon 60d to what i've shot on any of the Sony A7 cameras. By far. The image just feels a lot, lot better. 

 

Questions that need to be asked? 

1. How do all the 4k frame rates work? Full read out? Skipped? Cropped? 

2. How does the 120fps hold up? Is this also cropped like on the A7S II and C300 II? 

These two question are not mentioned from my source (if there are crops different modes) but insists in no moire/aliasing in any mode. I think it's all FF since he didn't mention it and he's a smart video shooter who tested the beta version for 2 full weeks. But still not 100% confirmed about crops. Hoping for all FF. 
 

3. Does the camera now have basic video features like peaking, zebra? (Likely not - monitor essential). 

No. But hugely improved LCD clarity making focus much easier, and ''touchscreen DPAF is magic he says, eliminates manual focus and is more accurate'' quote.

4. How much can we do with the picture profiles? Is it possible to upload C-log into the camera, or use another user-defined log mode? 

The camera allows full control over picture profiles,

and you can create ones on PC (any gamma curve/colours/contras) and import it into the camera,

but the LOG profile created by Canon themselves & technicolour is probably the most reliable , Cinestyle it's called. Very flat and will shine in 4K I predict.

C-log is not released to download/import. The image is still unknown, the sensor could dliver more DR in normal PP than 1DC in C-LOG or vice versa

 

Now we only need information on crops: anyone?

[Jimmy]

Does the lack of C-Log point to a 1D-C II?

Canon, if you're listening, stick 10 bit internal, some video features and an SDI connection onto these specs and i'll pay a premium.

[Eric Calabros]

They're just telling their customers: we couldn't find a efficient enough processor to compress the data, so you do it with your super computers! 

Maybe they just wanted to say "We Are Not Behind Sony. Don't Repeat This in Internet Forums!" otherwise, for most of serious video shooters who gonna buy this for its video capabilities, HDMI-out uncompressed 4k would work better. at least they could have smaller ProRes HQ files with their external monitors. But now, its just a bragging right: 4k60p internally. Wow. Sony folks dont have that! :-)

[Jimmy]

Maybe... i'm glad they did. 4K/60p with a high bitrate and 4:2:2 and the best video AF in the business is a very impressive and useful bragging right.

Can't believe that Canon have just seriously pushed the envelope and people are moaning about a codec. mJPEG might be old and use alot of space, but it can produce some amazing results.

[Oliver Daniel]

Maybe... i'm glad they did. 4K/60p with a high bitrate and 4:2:2 and the best video AF in the business is a very impressive and useful bragging right.

Can't believe that Canon have just seriously pushed the envelope and people are moaning about a codec. mJPEG might be old and use alot of space, but it can produce some amazing results.

I'm not too fussed about the codec. If that means better quality, then so be it.

I'm currently frustrated a little with the A7S II, the image always feels a bit too thin and you have to fight it. I enjoy using it, however I'm really looking for something more "critical".... pleasing colour, focus critical and a better feel to the image. Commercial work is very critical, especially clarity, colour and skin tones. 

The smallish form factor appeals as it fits all my current grip gear - unlike the Blackmagic Ursa Mini and RED Scarlet. 

I hope the impressive specs stack up in the final image. Curious about what can be done with the PP's. 

[Jimmy]

The lack of C-log is a strange one, so the PPs need to be able to hit at least 12 stops to get me thinking about a purchase. Hopefully enough pressure can be put on Canon to firmware the c-log and we might, just might start hitting DR that has never been seen before on a DSLR (alongside the already exciting prospect of 4K/60p and AF).

I do think the C-log omission could signal a 1-DC II though, maybe ready for NAB?

[Zach Ashcraft]

I am dying to see how the 120FPS footage holds up

[AaronChicago]

Regarding picture profiles. I'm still not convinced C Log gives you any real DR increase unless you're delivering the final in a flat C Log look. Normal LOG LUTs don't translate perfectly with C Log either b/c it's in between Log and REC709 kinda like S Log 2. WDR setting would be great if it's in this camera. I'd say if it's the normal Canon REC709 looks then that's a bummer.

[Andrew Reid]

Sounds like good step up (Glad I sold my 1DC in time, as prices will likely drop even lower).

Shameless Plug: if you plan to buy the 1DX Mk2 I am selling the perfect Cage for it ;-) https://flic.kr/s/aHsksW1Jm6

How much for the 1D C cage Franz?

I don't think the 1D C prices will drop - the 1D X Mark II only adds 60fps and AF. It takes away Canon LOG. It doesn't add a 4K HDMI output, peaking, articulated screen, XF codec or any Cinema EOS features worth mentioning apart from that Dual Pixel AF. Also at around 6000 euro its more expensive than a used 1D C.

Maybe... i'm glad they did. 4K/60p with a high bitrate and 4:2:2 and the best video AF in the business is a very impressive and useful bragging right.

Can't believe that Canon have just seriously pushed the envelope and people are moaning about a codec. mJPEG might be old and use alot of space, but it can produce some amazing results.

MJPEG was the weakest feature of the 1D C, it means a transcoding step and massive file sizes. Zero reason Canon could not have put an XF codec based on H.264 in the updated camera.

4K at 60fps will either be less quality at same bitrate as 1D C (500Mbit/s) or double the bitrate and double the file sizes. It's a lose-lose situation they have given us on the codec side.

MJPEG 4:2:2 8bit is not better quality than H.264 4:2:2 10bit at half the bitrate of MJPEG so I don't really know if Canon can justify MJPEG with an image quality argument either.

[Jimmy]

We don;t know what it "only" adds yet. DR and stuff are unknown.

If you are shooting 4K... "Only" adding 60fps is a big, big deal.. If you need AF, then "only" adding that is worth alot too (therefore reducing the price of the 1DC for anyone who likes said features).

As a techhead and someone always on Canon's back about never pushing the envelope, seems a little odd how you are underplaying all this.

Zero reason Canon could not have put an XF codec based on H.264 in the updated camera.

Zero reason? What about processor power? Heat issues?

As I said before... If this is the only way they could get 4K/60p onto a DSLR, then isn't that great news that they did? Even Sony haven't managed this feat yet... Or Samsung with their insane processors.

[The Chris]

The first 4k/60p DSLR and people are still complaining.

Looking forward to image samples and the soon to be announced 5d4 with 4k recording to Cfast cards.

[Oliver Daniel]

We don;t know what it "only" adds yet. DR and stuff are unknown.

If you are shooting 4K... "Only" adding 60fps is a big, big deal.. If you need AF, then "only" adding that is worth alot too (therefore reducing the price of the 1DC for anyone who likes said features).

As a techhead and someone always on Canon's back about never pushing the envelope, seems a little odd how you are underplaying all this.

Zero reason? What about processor power? Heat issues?

As I said before... If this is the only way they could get 4K/60p onto a DSLR, then isn't that great news that they did? Even Sony haven't managed this feat yet... Or Samsung with their insane processors.

Totally. 

If the specs translate to fantastic images, then this looks like it will be a very interesting hybrid shooter. File sizes are normally big in professional work anyway. There are other cameras we can use when bigger file sizes will be an issue. 

4k/60p is a huge deal for a DSLR. (The only reason i bought a GH3 at the time was because it was 1080p50 - first time feature!) 

The HUGE pressing matter for me is regarding picture profiles/dynamic range. (It would be very interesting if someone got the C-log curve and put it in this, surely that's possible somehow?). Also if the HD 120fps holds up well. 

Hoping they release a video promo. 

[Andrew Reid]

Sorry but 4K 60fps at 800Mbit/s is a total bullshit feature

10 minutes per 64GB card and impossible to edit without a transcoding step.

At $6k, only $2k off the price of an FS7 which does 4K 60fps in a body designed for video to a codec designed for editing.

Also there are so many cheap cameras that do 1080/60fps if slow-mo is your aim... Or even better many cameras half or even quarter the price of the 1D X Mark II that do 120fps!

4k/60p is a huge deal for a DSLR. (The only reason i bought a GH3 at the time was because it was 1080p50 - first time feature!) 

Small correction. The GH3 was not the first to get 1080/50p... Sony NEX 7 was.

You see, we have had 60fps for mediocre slow-mo since 2011... why because it is now 4K is it suddenly a HUGE deal again?

[Policar]

Looks like a nice camera for stills.