Jonesy Jones Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 So, a couple years ago I was just fed up with outrageous prices of anything filmmaking related, and at the top of that list was lighting. $1300 for fluorescent lights? And LED's? Good luck. So I started researching anything and everything lighting, particularly LED's. Called around. Ordered samples. And half a dozen wildly different prototypes later, I finally have something that I think is usable for actual professional production (this is obviously a very subjective opinion and many will probably not agree). I have, however, already used them on a commercial shoot. I'm proud to show them here on EOSHD and would be happy to share my basic plans and parts were anyone interested. Below are the basic specs and some photos of the lights themselves and some test shots as well.Lets start with the best spec... price. $150. Takes me about 2 hours to build from start to finish. My math is soft tonight, but at one point I believe I calculated them to produce about half the lux of a 4 bank kino. Design is similar to a kino, but much lighter. 3 x 48" bulbs. Each bulb is switchable. I used the frosted bulbs instead of the clear ones. Putting talent in front of the clear ones is cruel. Fits in your hand and is easy to move around to Hollywood it (am I using that term correctly?). LED CRI is about 85. Not great but not really that bad either. I think there is some of the green tint that comes with some LED's, though I can't see it with my eyes. Only when I bring a raw file into Adobe camera raw with auto setting do I notice it, which shifts the Tint to about +25. Easy enough to deal with that. These are consumer Daylight, so slighter warmer than 5600K. I went with ballast compatible LED's because I tested tons of the other and the cheap drivers created horizontal banding in my footage. These are clean, and silent, and run warm but not hot. I've built 3 so far.Overall I am extremely happy with my lights, though the fixtures from aputure are also very attractive as well. I think these are very different lights with different applications, but those aputure ones look very promising. But at least I have my own lights that I can start really testing different lighting setups and so on. It is so easy to get these on a C stand. Lift them up. Tilt them. Spin them around. Whatever. Very excited.What I am most proud of is the design of the fixture itself. The bulbs can be replaced as LED tech improves and becomes less expensive. I like the bulbs I have, but if in a year or so inexpensive higher CRI bulbs become available I will replace mine if they are indeed an improvement. The bulbs I used are no longer available online (though the maker will still sell them to me at a massive discount). But I believe any ballast compatible LED bulbs will do. I used a steel stud track cut 48" as the main chassis. All the parts are attached to this. A steel stud (cut to roughly 46") fits perfectly into the track to close off the fixture and keep all the unsightly innards out of view. I used a 6" Impact Baby Pin. I don't like the Avenger ones. I line the baby pin centered in the fixture, mark and drill the holes. The ballast I used was this one. But there are bunches that are same basic price and size. This ballast fits nicely centered in between the bolts from the baby pin. Mark and drill holes for the ballast.I used these tombstones. That's for a pack of 10, you'll need 6 for 1 fixture. 3 tombstones side by side fit snuggly into the end of the steel track chassis. My second batch of tombstones needed a little sanding on each side to fit. Like I said, they fit pretty, very, snuggly. Place 3 in on each side of fixture so they fit right to the end. Mark and drill 1 hole for each tombstone. You'll need an additional nut or washers in between the tombstone and the fixture (as a spacer) to get it a bit higher.I used 3 of these switches from Home Depot. Mark and drill a hole for each. These switches interrupt the 3 same colored lines coming from the ballast, and then go to the tombstones at one end of the fixture. One switch per tombstone. I am not an electrical engineer, so it's possible there are better suited switches for this particular load, but these work for me.I used a clamp connector from Home Depot. I forget the exact size, but the smallest one. Mark and drill hole. You will probably need a 7/8" hole saw, but maybe there's more than one way to do this. This connector is for the main power cable.For the power cable I just used an extension cord. I new I was going to make a few so I bought a hundred footer and cut it into 4 lengths.This was the cheapest route. And bought 3 prong plugs to attach to the cords that needed it. I would drill all the holes first. Then attach the hardware. Takes me a little over an hour to do this. Then do the wiring, which is pretty easy. I also laid down some duct tape inside the steel stud track for additional shielding. I think this is a good idea. Once everything is connected, put your bulbs (T8 LED ballast compatible) in to test it. If all is well, remove bulbs, insert steel stud to cover up the wiring and screw that in. Insert bulbs again and then use gaffers tape at the ends to hold bulbs in place and cover up the ends and tombstones. Takes me just over 2 hours. One quick note: sometimes the bulbs will glow (very slightly) even when in the off position. Could be from the switches or an electromagnetic field or something. Haven't been able to solve this, but it doesn't affect my lighting at all as it is so minor. Also, unless you discover otherwise, using the ballast and the ballast compatible bulbs are 100% necessary. I have found these are the only ones that do not result in flicker and banding problems. Good luck. Please forgive my poor lighting skills ( now I can start practicing). Blown out portions are due to me forgetting to turn on zebras. Shot with BMCC and Sigma 18-35 in my garage with 1 of my lights with only 1 bulb on as the key and another one with just 1 bulb on as the fill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcs Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 You can add some -1/8 magenta gels to help with the green tint. Jonesy Jones 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicolas MAILLET Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Poor children... forced by their father... You look like me... My daughter is now ready to make a light set on her own... Great light JCS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ebrahim Saadawi Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 well done! looks great.I love people who get their hands dirty! I've been fed up with LED and Fl.lately in terms of intensity so I am building a huge tungsten brick for a usable strong back light, nothing from this new tech is working for me as backlights- and on the bright side, it can be used as a heater in winter too :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanveer Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 So, a couple years ago I was just fed up with outrageous prices of anything filmmaking related, and at the top of that list was lighting. $1300 for fluorescent lights? And LED's? Good luck. So I started researching anything and everything lighting, particularly LED's. Called around. Ordered samples. And half a dozen wildly different prototypes later, I finally have something that I think is usable for actual professional production (this is obviously a very subjective opinion and many will probably not agree). I have, however, already used them on a commercial shoot. I'm proud to show them here on EOSHD and would be happy to share my basic plans and parts were anyone interested. Below are the basic specs and some photos of the lights themselves and some test shots as well.Lets start with the best spec... price. $150. Takes me about 2 hours to build from start to finish. My math is soft tonight, but at one point I believe I calculated them to produce about half the lux of a 4 bank kino. Design is similar to a kino, but much lighter. 3 x 48" bulbs. Each bulb is switchable. I used the frosted bulbs instead of the clear ones. Putting talent in front of the clear ones is cruel. Fits in your hand and is easy to move around to Hollywood it (am I using that term correctly?). LED CRI is about 85. Not great but not really that bad either. I think there is some of the green tint that comes with some LED's, though I can't see it with my eyes. Only when I bring a raw file into Adobe camera raw with auto setting do I notice it, which shifts the Tint to about +25. Easy enough to deal with that. These are consumer Daylight, so slighter warmer than 5600K. I went with ballast compatible LED's because I tested tons of the other and the cheap drivers created horizontal banding in my footage. These are clean, and silent, and run warm but not hot. I've built 3 so far.Overall I am extremely happy with my lights, though the fixtures from aputure are also very attractive as well. I think these are very different lights with different applications, but those aputure ones look very promising. But at least I have my own lights that I can start really testing different lighting setups and so on. It is so easy to get these on a C stand. Lift them up. Tilt them. Spin them around. Whatever. Very excited.Please forgive my poor lighting skills ( now I can start practicing). Blown out portions are due to me forgetting to turn on zebras. Shot with BMCC and Sigma 18-35 in my garage with 1 of my lights with only 1 bulb on as the key and another one with just 1 bulb on as the fill.The lighting is pretty good. I had seen a video with those tiny String LEDs, and they have some superb lighting effects too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronChicago Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Very cool. I was thinking about building a thin wall of colored flourescents for a music video. Trying to figure out time x cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chris Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Any links to the fixture? I looked at LED's in Home Depot and didn't see anything like this. I built a set of DIY Kinos with 48" shop lights on the cheap, but they're pretty heavy -- especially the 4-light bank. They need to have an electronic ballast to prevent flicker, the housing is cheap stamped steel, all the bolts/washers are steel - they got fat pretty quickly. But the total cost - including 12ea T8 5500k bulbs was about $300 for everything, or just a fraction of a single Kino fixture.Also, what are you using on the back to clamp it to the stand? I used cheap/light electrical conduit and some brackets to put them on stands, but I can only go vertical as you can see in the image below. If I can DIY a lighter set of lights, that would be awesome. Thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Oh Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Looks awesome! Thanks for sharing.Any links to the bulb and parts you used? That would be super helpful.Also, Have you seen this video? I've been tempting to build one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonesy Jones Posted October 20, 2015 Author Share Posted October 20, 2015 Any links to the fixture? I looked at LED's in Home Depot and didn't see anything like this. I built a set of DIY Kinos with 48" shop lights on the cheap, but they're pretty heavy -- especially the 4-light bank. They need to have an electronic ballast to prevent flicker, the housing is cheap stamped steel, all the bolts/washers are steel - they got fat pretty quickly. But the total cost - including 12ea T8 5500k bulbs was about $300 for everything, or just a fraction of a single Kino fixture.Also, what are you using on the back to clamp it to the stand? I used cheap/light electrical conduit and some brackets to put them on stands, but I can only go vertical as you can see in the image below. If I can DIY a lighter set of lights, that would be awesome. Thanks in advance.The fixture is homemade. I used steal studs that are super cheap at home depot. A steal track is the visible chassis, and a steal stud fits perfectly inside to cover up the wiring and what not. It's like $5-$10 for both. I also use electronic ballasts for the same flicker reason. To mount to a stand I would use a 6" Impact Baby pin ($12 here). I did not like the Avenger ones. And 3" is just not enough to work with ('that's what she said'), go with the 6". It'll go right into any typical c stand knuckles, which can be had for like $20 if you don't have them already. Looks awesome! Thanks for sharing.Any links to the bulb and parts you used? That would be super helpful.Also, Have you seen this video? I've been tempting to build one.I have not seen that video yet. I'll check it out. I'm at work now. I just inquired to the maker of the bulbs I used and they don't offer them publicly any longer, though he offered them to me for under $10, which is quite a deal. If folks were interested I'd I buy a bunch. But you'd also have to pay for shipping. It may also be worth looking into Philips or Cree or another manufacturers. You want the ballast ones as the others, though way easier work with, have a flicker that shows up as banding. Also, LED's are getting higher quality and cheaper. I am starting to see LED's showing up at home depot with 90+ CRI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chris Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Are those LED's T8 bulbs? Are you just using LED bulbs with standard fluorescent parts? I'm thinking I could recycle what I already have and find a lighter housing than my current fixture. The Baby Pin looks like a good option to cut weight too.Gonna have to make another Home Depot run. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bioskop.Inc Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 The price of Lights do just do my head in, always looking for a cheap solution.A combined tip from the DP of the Saint Laurent film & Vic Harris over at BMCUser, was:Ikea - China Balls & all the fixings, along with their own brand LED light bulbs (LEDARE 1000lm 2700kelvin)There are 2 types of bulbs: the small 13w & the bigger 14.2w - both dimmable & the better of the two is the smaller 13w, as it produces pretty much zero colour cast for just £10.I've been testing them out as a good cheap solution for practicals or just as main lights (when you use quite a few in several China Balls).http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/00257482/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzynormal Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Forgive your lighting? Why? It looks like you know what you're doing. From what I've found, much like music, what you take away is as important as what you do. The space between the notes. Those that know what to "hear" are ahead of the game. Jonesy Jones 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonesy Jones Posted October 20, 2015 Author Share Posted October 20, 2015 Forgive your lighting? Why? It looks like you know what you're doing. From what I've found, much like music, what you take away is as important as what you do. The space between the notes. Those that know what to "hear" are ahead of the game.Thanks Fuzzy. It's just one of those things that while you're posting you think, someone's going to complain about it being overexposed and the ugly patch of light under the ears and the light is way too low. A preemptive acknowledgment of my awareness of my skill level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrgl Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 If you're willing to fork over the cash, Kino Flo sells T8s and CFLs that have zero colour cast.That's what I've been doing for the last year or so. I purchase crappy Chinese video light kits, sell the awful bulbs that come with them (I pretty much give them away), and plug in the wonderful Kinos. I'm getting awesome light for a 1/10th of the cost.LED panels sub $1000 are terrible in mixed lighting situations. Nothing is worse than having to "decide" what cast you want in your final footage, green or magenta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sekhar Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 LED panels sub $1000 are terrible in mixed lighting situations. Nothing is worse than having to "decide" what cast you want in your final footage, green or magenta.You should be able to match the lights with gels. E.g., I do that with blue gels on my Lowel tungstens when adding to sunlight. My bigger concern with cheap lights is bad CRI, which you can't fix with color correction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonesy Jones Posted October 21, 2015 Author Share Posted October 21, 2015 You should be able to match the lights with gels. E.g., I do that with blue gels on my Lowel tungstens when adding to sunlight. My bigger concern with cheap lights is bad CRI, which you can't fix with color correction.CRI is a very fuzzy science. One light's 95 is not equivalent to another's 95. In fact, in some cases a 77 CRI will photograph better than a 90 because the CRI rating is determined using the entire light spectrum and may do well in some frequencies and poorly in others. A camera sensor uses only rgb and different color science complicates the matter further. In general higher CRI is preferred, but not a litmus test. In my case, my lights (85 CRI) are beautiful once the tint slider is nudged to the right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Oh Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 If you're willing to fork over the cash, Kino Flo sells T8s and CFLs that have zero colour cast.That's what I've been doing for the last year or so. I purchase crappy Chinese video light kits, sell the awful bulbs that come with them (I pretty much give them away), and plug in the wonderful Kinos. I'm getting awesome light for a 1/10th of the cost.LED panels sub $1000 are terrible in mixed lighting situations. Nothing is worse than having to "decide" what cast you want in your final footage, green or magenta.So, 1 one of these: http://www.amazon.com/LimoStudio-Lighting-Fluroescent-Barndoor-AGG976/dp/B00C7XVFIY/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top?ie=UTF8and 2 of these: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/258267-REG/Kino_Flo_55C_K55_True_Match_Compact_Lamp.html= Smallish portable Kino for around $100? andrgl 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcs Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 It's true that most low-cost LEDs have poor spectrums, however Aputure 95+CRI LEDs are under $1k and handle skintones very well, even better than our >$1k Dracasts (far more durable, but not as good color). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxotics Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Nice Job! I was reading a portrait photographer's book, back from film days, http://blog.kitfphoto.com/Zeltsman/chapter-12.html and his method was to get a basic fill-light going and then key from there, knowing he has a minimally exposed negative. I've been leaning that way myself. Anyway, those lights are PERFECT for that. You can either bounce them off cheap foam-core or put some tracing paper in front. Another design to look at is where you put the lights in a silver box and then curve a white surface above. The old way they used to make studio soft lights. Can't find an image easily on the Internet at moment. Either way, use some single light LEDs as Key and hairlights and you're good to go!And a tip for my U.S. brethren, after the November elections there is tons of foam-core thrown out by candidates, etc. The backsides are usually white and usable. So hit those dumpsters! Xavier Plagaro Mussard and Jonesy Jones 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Oh Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Lets start with the best spec... price. $150. Hey sir, I forgot to ask. The $150 price tag is for one of those? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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